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Jan Hemels
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| Country: | Netherlands  |
| City: | Alkmaar |
| Registered: | February 26th, 2007 |
| Num of photos: | 587 |
| Age: | 65 |
| Selected as fav: | 192 |
| Photogear: | Olympus E 5 with Zuiko 14-54 mm f 2.8-3.5 II, Zuiko 50-200 F2.8/F3.5 and E 510 + kitlenses |
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PERSONA ( NON ) GRATA
Posted by Jan Hemels on December 20th, 2011 | 42 comments | 781 views
Rating has been a source of controversy on this site for a long time.
The last few weeks I see that I regularly receive three to five votes more than comments after which my photo drops to the second or third or even lower page. It happens regardless whether I post them in the early morning or in the afternoon. This month I have 7 pics in the top 60 FAV this month and they are all at the very bottom of my portfolio, THANKS
I have no desire to appear in the top every day and I fully understand that every member must have a chance to have his good quality pictures shown to a broad public.
I am sure however that the rating is manipulated systematically to refresh the daily top 5 (and more) but the radical indiscriminate way it is done does not appeal to me at all. It makes me feel like a persona non grata .
I fully understand the policy of the managament to have a site as international as possible with not too many times the same people in top rankings.
What I do not understand is why they (the management) do not introduce an editor's choice or use a tool to PROMOTE certain pictures instead of giving low rates to others.
The sad consequence of this policy is that members hold each other responsible for these ratings what has lead to lots of complaints, quarelling, accusations and so on. I speak out of experience.
It is high time that the management speaks out openly on this subject and tell us what they are doing and why.
To me the present situation is such that for the time being I find no longer any pleasure in posting my pictures here.
I am very sorry to say so.
IN THE MEAN TIME I HAD A REACTION FROM JORIS
This means that I will stay on board with the expectation that in 2012 things will really change for the better.
The last few weeks I see that I regularly receive three to five votes more than comments after which my photo drops to the second or third or even lower page. It happens regardless whether I post them in the early morning or in the afternoon. This month I have 7 pics in the top 60 FAV this month and they are all at the very bottom of my portfolio, THANKS
I have no desire to appear in the top every day and I fully understand that every member must have a chance to have his good quality pictures shown to a broad public.
I am sure however that the rating is manipulated systematically to refresh the daily top 5 (and more) but the radical indiscriminate way it is done does not appeal to me at all. It makes me feel like a persona non grata .
I fully understand the policy of the managament to have a site as international as possible with not too many times the same people in top rankings.
What I do not understand is why they (the management) do not introduce an editor's choice or use a tool to PROMOTE certain pictures instead of giving low rates to others.
The sad consequence of this policy is that members hold each other responsible for these ratings what has lead to lots of complaints, quarelling, accusations and so on. I speak out of experience.
It is high time that the management speaks out openly on this subject and tell us what they are doing and why.
To me the present situation is such that for the time being I find no longer any pleasure in posting my pictures here.
I am very sorry to say so.
IN THE MEAN TIME I HAD A REACTION FROM JORIS
This means that I will stay on board with the expectation that in 2012 things will really change for the better.
Comments
# posted by Nico Andries on February 19th, 2012 10:50 pm
I do sincerely hope for a serious change this time. This problem had been unsolved for too long already. I wrote the management last week on behalf of a member who suffers from serious downrating and didn't even get a reply...
Jan, maybe you can do something about it. Too many users users upload definitely too many shots, and it makes honest evaluation of photos impossible, and now this repeated SPAM that worsens the situation, no reaction on the part of moderators, i'm going to suspend my activity on the site until this is cleared, otherwise there is no sense to visit the place, my time is too precious to be wasted like that. Greetings :)))
Jan, I'm wiser now and, believe me, no rating but just comments is the solution, the number of serious comments could be a reliable indicator of likeability and well-grounded appreciation, but this solution is against business goals (clicks mean money :-)))). Editor's pick will also be biased! Maybe the pure fun of showing photos and reading comments is the answer, but I know it is a dream :))) Show your photos, I have always liked them even if sometimes they are not perfect :-)))))))))))))
# posted by Paulo Melo on January 13th, 2012 5:19 pm
I agree absolutely with Jean Michel. That's the way i rate and i enjoy to be in woophy. And i think rating should be not .
Regards and don't take seriously the downraters which i identified already 2 or 3...frustrated and bad people. They don't deserve the honour of be members
Regards and don't take seriously the downraters which i identified already 2 or 3...frustrated and bad people. They don't deserve the honour of be members
# posted by SUSAN LEE SCHWARTZ on January 1st, 2012 11:39 pm
I just came to Woofy, and found your photos, Jan. I would be very disappointed if you did not post. Why are the ratings important anyway? Your work is unique. In my photo club, you would always receive the top rating, as we submit anonymously. The judges are tough and know a gifted photographer when they see the work YOU are very gifted. PLEASE DON'T STOP POSTING I give you a TEN!
More promises? That is fantastic!
# posted by Dieuwertje on December 25th, 2011 6:50 pm
Jan, I am glad for you and all other woophy's that Joris will do something about the downraters problem.
Ne lâchez rien Jan !
Thanks for the information, and thanks to all contibutors.
Thanks for the information, and thanks to all contibutors.
# posted by hardloperjan (Jan Landman) on December 24th, 2011 4:22 pm
Its so good to see there is progress in the near future, thanks for sharing this Jan.
Lets have all...a good promising Woophy 2012
Lets have all...a good promising Woophy 2012
# posted by Jan Hemels on December 24th, 2011 3:52 pm
I want you all to know that the reaction from Joris to my observations were very promising.
The advanced plans for changing the system in the course of 2012 really look as a great step forwards.
The advanced plans for changing the system in the course of 2012 really look as a great step forwards.
Hi Jan, I'd be interested in that answer! Would you share it with us?
Jan
just want to say that you will get an answer when you complain with me.
just want to say that you will get an answer when you complain with me.
Jan, you know me, was a pleasure met you, and also is a big pleasure see yours wonderful photos here in Woophy. You have a lot friends here and you and your photos are important for us, please don't make us miss you. Stay in Woophy!. Merry Christmas for you and your family dear Jan
# posted by Fernando Abreu on December 23rd, 2011 11:04 am
Hi Jan
I agree with Jean-Michel says. There in Woophy groups of friends who rate among themselves the highest rating, often the minimum quality requirements. There is also the habit of commenting on the photos to a comment in return.
After all, being sometimes even discouraging, I think is worth continuing.
Merry Christmas and happy 2012 to you and your family.
I agree with Jean-Michel says. There in Woophy groups of friends who rate among themselves the highest rating, often the minimum quality requirements. There is also the habit of commenting on the photos to a comment in return.
After all, being sometimes even discouraging, I think is worth continuing.
Merry Christmas and happy 2012 to you and your family.
# posted by hardloperjan (Jan Landman) on December 23rd, 2011 11:00 am
Jan, It would be a very sad day if you leave us, your pictures are so special. I know most of the places you took pictures of, and I know how difficult it is to obtain the quality of your shots. In my opinion, your pictures belong to one's the best of Woophy.
Down-rating, it such a childish thing to do, I feel only pity for the persons who do this.
For me the rating is not important at all, your and all other remarks are much more important;," friendship is more important than numbers".
Jan, please keep on showing us the beauty trough you pictures.
Have a very good Christmas end a happy and healthy 2012
Down-rating, it such a childish thing to do, I feel only pity for the persons who do this.
For me the rating is not important at all, your and all other remarks are much more important;," friendship is more important than numbers".
Jan, please keep on showing us the beauty trough you pictures.
Have a very good Christmas end a happy and healthy 2012
This is good news Josh!
I really hope that's it really happened in 2012 ..... I personaly prefer it as a number 1 on your long list.
I really hope that's it really happened in 2012 ..... I personaly prefer it as a number 1 on your long list.
# posted by spiritualizedkaos on December 23rd, 2011 9:38 am
Jan, please stay.
# posted by WoophySF(JP) on December 22nd, 2011 10:22 pm
Hi Jan.
This is Josh from WoophySF.
I completely agree with you that the rating system needs work. Please know that fixing it is a top priority for us in 2012.
In all honesty it is probably 6th or 7th thing in our LONG list of things to do in 2012.
Also, without getting myself into too much trouble, I think it's pretty safe to say that sometime in 2012 Woophy will be switching over to a system where the ability to rate photos (and the process of assigning stars) will start to more closely align with how people contribute to Woophy.
We will definitely say more when the time is right but please know that it is a real concern for us and that I believe we have some very good ideas on how to fix it.
Thanks!!
This is Josh from WoophySF.
I completely agree with you that the rating system needs work. Please know that fixing it is a top priority for us in 2012.
In all honesty it is probably 6th or 7th thing in our LONG list of things to do in 2012.
Also, without getting myself into too much trouble, I think it's pretty safe to say that sometime in 2012 Woophy will be switching over to a system where the ability to rate photos (and the process of assigning stars) will start to more closely align with how people contribute to Woophy.
We will definitely say more when the time is right but please know that it is a real concern for us and that I believe we have some very good ideas on how to fix it.
Thanks!!
# posted by geert geenen on December 22nd, 2011 4:57 pm
wise words from jean-michel
# posted by grannychristina on December 22nd, 2011 2:17 pm
please don't stop!!! I wil miss your beautiful pctures!!!!!!!!!!
# posted by Wim Verdonschot on December 21st, 2011 9:07 pm
Hallo Jan,
Doodzonde vind ik dat gedoe, ik heb er al een hele tijd last van en heb zelfs een paar keer een test gedaan door bewust foto's van verschillende kwaliteit op een dag te plaatsen en raar maar waar, de betere werden af en toe plots afgestraft en hadden altijd meer ratings dan commentaren. Bij foto
1266726 heb ik hier zelf met een commentaar op gereageerd en kreeg binnen 10 minuten een reactie van iemand die bij mijn weten nog nooit met een commentaar op mijn foto's reageerde met als opmerking ach waar maak je je druk om je krijgt toch allemaal 4 en 5*****. Ik heb helemaal niets tegen op goed onderbouwde serieuze lagere waarderingen, daar kan ik van leren.
In mijn ogen zou het goed zijn als je nooit anoniem kunt "raten", al geef je geen commentaar als je naam maar vermeld staat, maarja ik neem aan dat een dergelijk voorstel al vaker is gedaan.
Sommigen waarderen een foto laag terwijl ze een kort prijzend commentaar geven ook dit heb ik onder mijn ogen zien gebeuren en dit soort mensen krijgen van mij alleen nog waarderingen en commentaar bij echt hele goeie foto's.
Maar Jan blijf a.u.b. doorgaan met het inzenden van die hele mooie foto's in geniet ervan en hoop dit te kunnen blijven doen.
Houdoe,
Wim Verdonschot.
P.S. Jan, komend voorjaar gaan we weer een keer naar de Peel en je bent bij deze van harte uitgenodigd.
Doodzonde vind ik dat gedoe, ik heb er al een hele tijd last van en heb zelfs een paar keer een test gedaan door bewust foto's van verschillende kwaliteit op een dag te plaatsen en raar maar waar, de betere werden af en toe plots afgestraft en hadden altijd meer ratings dan commentaren. Bij foto
1266726 heb ik hier zelf met een commentaar op gereageerd en kreeg binnen 10 minuten een reactie van iemand die bij mijn weten nog nooit met een commentaar op mijn foto's reageerde met als opmerking ach waar maak je je druk om je krijgt toch allemaal 4 en 5*****. Ik heb helemaal niets tegen op goed onderbouwde serieuze lagere waarderingen, daar kan ik van leren.
In mijn ogen zou het goed zijn als je nooit anoniem kunt "raten", al geef je geen commentaar als je naam maar vermeld staat, maarja ik neem aan dat een dergelijk voorstel al vaker is gedaan.
Sommigen waarderen een foto laag terwijl ze een kort prijzend commentaar geven ook dit heb ik onder mijn ogen zien gebeuren en dit soort mensen krijgen van mij alleen nog waarderingen en commentaar bij echt hele goeie foto's.
Maar Jan blijf a.u.b. doorgaan met het inzenden van die hele mooie foto's in geniet ervan en hoop dit te kunnen blijven doen.
Houdoe,
Wim Verdonschot.
P.S. Jan, komend voorjaar gaan we weer een keer naar de Peel en je bent bij deze van harte uitgenodigd.
# posted by jean-michel on December 21st, 2011 9:04 pm
I just want to add a comment to explain what I mean. Often, I see technically bad pictures with a lot of votes because the author is friend with many members and comes to comment regularly other's pictures. It includes some of mines which are not all good. sometimes to, I see wonderful pictures with almost no votes because these members never go to comment other's pictures.
# posted by jean-michel on December 21st, 2011 8:49 pm
I agree that there is a problem with ratings but maybe the problem is with the reasons for ratings. Some members seems to vote a picture because it was made by a friend or because the author of the picture came to comment and vote one of their pictures.
Often, I comment a picture and the member come to comment one of my pictures, most of the time the latest, good or not. if I comment three pictures, the member will come to comment three of my pictures. It is like a trade, one vote for one vote, one comment for one comment. It should not be like that.
What I do is that I go each day to watch the latest pictures sent on Woophy. I look first at the picture and comment or vote only if I like it or I have something to say about what is shown. I don't take care of the member's name. Often, I comment pictures of members who never vote or comments on my pictures. That is their choice and respect it. sometimes too, some members comment most of my pictures and I don't comment theirs, not because they are not good but because it is not a picture which interest me by its subject.
That is my message. Vote and comment for pictures that you really like or for which you have an interesting comment or information to give. Don't vote to give back a vote given to you by another member. If you follow my advice, I will loose some votes and comments but it is not that important for me. friendship and discovery of others is more important.
Often, I comment a picture and the member come to comment one of my pictures, most of the time the latest, good or not. if I comment three pictures, the member will come to comment three of my pictures. It is like a trade, one vote for one vote, one comment for one comment. It should not be like that.
What I do is that I go each day to watch the latest pictures sent on Woophy. I look first at the picture and comment or vote only if I like it or I have something to say about what is shown. I don't take care of the member's name. Often, I comment pictures of members who never vote or comments on my pictures. That is their choice and respect it. sometimes too, some members comment most of my pictures and I don't comment theirs, not because they are not good but because it is not a picture which interest me by its subject.
That is my message. Vote and comment for pictures that you really like or for which you have an interesting comment or information to give. Don't vote to give back a vote given to you by another member. If you follow my advice, I will loose some votes and comments but it is not that important for me. friendship and discovery of others is more important.
# posted by Helena Ferreira on December 21st, 2011 7:28 pm
Yes, I read your blog today Jan. Look my gallery ... Happy New Year.
# posted by Judite Garcia on December 21st, 2011 7:13 pm
Jan, I understand your feeling ! But please dont leave for this reason. Your pictures are really high quality! And I am sure that everyone understands that a picture is not judged just by the ratings. So You Have to Stay Here.
# posted by trudy tuinstra on December 21st, 2011 4:42 pm
Jan , you know how I think about it. I don't let them spoil my joy! And I think complaning about it makes things worse. The downrating nuts get there reward, everybody is pissed of but they laugh and feel mighty. Let them get the cloths. (translated in dutch it is not such a decent remark). PLease go on posting your pearls, brilliants and other jewels, your pictures are fantastic !
Dag, Jan !
Het gaat hier om een oud zeer waartegen, na talloze suggesties van leden, geen remedie blijkt te zijn gevonden.
Ik tracht er gelaten bij te blijven : foto's inzenden, naar bestvermogen eerlijke commentaren geven en verder die onnozelaars laten voor wat ze zijn .Mij geen moment slecht humeur waard, hoor !
Laat het niet aan je hart komen, Jan ! Je gaat daarom toch niet stoppen met Woophy, zeker !!!Dat zou die kerels te erg plezieren
Alleszins heel vrolijke feestdagen !!
Camille.
Het gaat hier om een oud zeer waartegen, na talloze suggesties van leden, geen remedie blijkt te zijn gevonden.
Ik tracht er gelaten bij te blijven : foto's inzenden, naar bestvermogen eerlijke commentaren geven en verder die onnozelaars laten voor wat ze zijn .Mij geen moment slecht humeur waard, hoor !
Laat het niet aan je hart komen, Jan ! Je gaat daarom toch niet stoppen met Woophy, zeker !!!Dat zou die kerels te erg plezieren
Alleszins heel vrolijke feestdagen !!
Camille.
Maar even in het Nederlands. Ik begrijp je helemaal Jan, je hebt het goed omschreven. Ben het ook helemaal met je eens.
Ik ben niet zo vaak online op Woophy wegens tijdgebrek. Maar ik kom wel vaak een kijkje nemen en zie wat er gebeurd. En nu wat vaker omdat ik vakantie heb.
Ik kwam gisteren bij je laatste twee foto's, de één na de laatste die van het kerkhof stond op 4*, ik gaf 5* maar hij bleef op 4* staan, dat is goed mogelijk. Echter je laatste foto van de sunset met de biker stond op 5* en ik gaf ook 5*, terwijl ik dat deed zie ik onder mijn ogen de foto zakken naar 4*. Raadsel? Zat er iemand tegelijkertijd te drukken op 1*?
Alles is in de afgelopen jaren hierover al gezegd, maar het is ontzettend frusterend. Het wordt toch echt tijd dat het management het systeem veranderd. Ik hoop wel dat je je prachtige foto's blijft posten!
Groetjes, Marja
Ik ben niet zo vaak online op Woophy wegens tijdgebrek. Maar ik kom wel vaak een kijkje nemen en zie wat er gebeurd. En nu wat vaker omdat ik vakantie heb.
Ik kwam gisteren bij je laatste twee foto's, de één na de laatste die van het kerkhof stond op 4*, ik gaf 5* maar hij bleef op 4* staan, dat is goed mogelijk. Echter je laatste foto van de sunset met de biker stond op 5* en ik gaf ook 5*, terwijl ik dat deed zie ik onder mijn ogen de foto zakken naar 4*. Raadsel? Zat er iemand tegelijkertijd te drukken op 1*?
Alles is in de afgelopen jaren hierover al gezegd, maar het is ontzettend frusterend. Het wordt toch echt tijd dat het management het systeem veranderd. Ik hoop wel dat je je prachtige foto's blijft posten!
Groetjes, Marja
Hello Jan. I am also a persona non grata. Every single picture I have posted in the last 2 years have been downrated!
I know how hard it is but keep on the good work and focus on the serious members!
I know how hard it is but keep on the good work and focus on the serious members!
Jan, i understand your feeling! It took me sometime to figure out what happened when my pictures have been going from 5 to 4. But please dont leave for this reason. Your pictures are really high quality! And i am sure that every one understands that a picture is not judged just by the ratings. So please stay and dont give those people who deliberately do this an opportunity to celebrate.
What can I say now Jan, that I haven't said before???
# posted by ewa kaminska on December 21st, 2011 11:37 am
I am on Woophy only for some lovely friends and lovely pictures...nice moments to comment interesting pictures and that"s all what is important!
I notice that many people found better place to spend good time in web! It will be problem for Woophy soon or later!!!
I notice that many people found better place to spend good time in web! It will be problem for Woophy soon or later!!!
# posted by Jan Hemels on December 21st, 2011 10:51 am
Ruud thanks for your support,
I see you clearly understood what is going on here.
I am afraid some others still live in a fairy tale world.
I see you clearly understood what is going on here.
I am afraid some others still live in a fairy tale world.
# posted by debbie wilson on December 21st, 2011 6:36 am
Hey Jan, I know how you feel. My pictures have been going from a 4 to a 5 then to a 4 and back again, so I ignore the numbers and continue to enjoy the pictures. I love yours very much and would feel very sad if you would leave this site. Stay and don't let the down raters win
Yes, I read your blog today Jan ,look at my pictures of Canberra parlements house ,it just happened to me overnight, more votes then comments ,funny,but I think only unhappy people do this to get a thrill out of it Jan ,just don't worry ,its always nice to see your beautiful pictures * They are very proffesional taken ! Hope the downraters will find Peace over Christmas !
# posted by Martin de Rijk on December 21st, 2011 1:02 am
Jan, I can imagine your feelings. Like Ruud I don't post too often anymore. Like you I have experienced the downrating too often. Still I like this site for more reasons. I like it too much to quit. Reconsider and take those ratings for granted as long as nothing changes.
Hi Jan,
I hope you regain the pleasure you used to have in posting pictures here. I’ve been posting very sparsely myself. My strategy is to spare most of my pictures for later, for when Woophy finally implements a fair rating system.
As it is, you are being 'put in your place' by probably no more than a handful of members, who are sacrosanct to Woophy for the very low ratings they meet out. Try for yourself: ask Joris who've been rating anonymously for your recent pictures, and what they've been rating. You will get no answer. The culprits are protected and you are left in the lurch.
About the non grata thing. I've always assumed that Woophy staff itself was not rating our pictures anonymously, but the way they've committed themselves to anonymous rating, the way they never seem to rate openly, and the manner in which they line up with our anonymous 1-2-3-raters does make the suggestion credible. Woophy staff is responsible for what happened, by making it possible to happen and by allowing it to continue.
it's too bad.
I hope you regain the pleasure you used to have in posting pictures here. I’ve been posting very sparsely myself. My strategy is to spare most of my pictures for later, for when Woophy finally implements a fair rating system.
As it is, you are being 'put in your place' by probably no more than a handful of members, who are sacrosanct to Woophy for the very low ratings they meet out. Try for yourself: ask Joris who've been rating anonymously for your recent pictures, and what they've been rating. You will get no answer. The culprits are protected and you are left in the lurch.
About the non grata thing. I've always assumed that Woophy staff itself was not rating our pictures anonymously, but the way they've committed themselves to anonymous rating, the way they never seem to rate openly, and the manner in which they line up with our anonymous 1-2-3-raters does make the suggestion credible. Woophy staff is responsible for what happened, by making it possible to happen and by allowing it to continue.
it's too bad.
# posted by elly holland on December 21st, 2011 12:08 am
Jan, I understand your feeling so very well.As you know I've been downrated many times too and I still cannot understand why it's happening.I also can understand that everyone should have the opportunity to be on the first page,but maybe their should be another way to change the pictures.I would like you to stay as your images are wonderful and I enjoy watching them.
# posted by Christian C on December 20th, 2011 8:11 pm
I understand , I have suspected this problem for few of my pictures, but as Geert said, you are persona grata on woophy.
I hope the management will do something about the rating system.
I hope the management will do something about the rating system.
Jan, the problem is serious, I understand, but we can't miss your splendid images...!!!
# posted by Dieuwertje on December 20th, 2011 6:52 pm
Jan, please stay I can't miss your beautiful photo's and pleasure comments !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# posted by geert geenen on December 20th, 2011 6:44 pm
Jan, for me you are a persona grata here on woophy; so, keep posting your beautiful photo's! (but i can understand your feelings)