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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 18:58
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Dear All,
I took this photograph today and I am planning to submit it to a photographic competition;
The photo represents a Jewish traditional pendant - the 2 letters together form the word Chai - which means Life.
I wanted to represent a very simple concept and I absolutely need some advice on the stylistical choices I made. The composition, colour, contrast, curves, depth of field.
What do you think about this photograph? Do you have any precious suggestions on how (if) to improve it? Do you think that another viewpoint could make a difference?
What about the depth of Field?
Looking forward to your precious suggestions :D
Hugs to all,
Nathan
- 100mm Macro f4 1/45 sec. ISO 400 (Saturation, Curves, on Photoshop)
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fotogravenswaay
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 20:07
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Hi Nathan,
First of all I like the picture and the idea behind it.
But what was or is the subject or goal of the competition?
Besides this questions I hava also a remark.......the necklace in the right could be a tad more blurred..and I would have used another cut out, the pendant not so centered but more to the right.
Did you use a flash?? which brings me to the next question.....why ISO400 and not ISO100?
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grumpyman
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 20:14
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Hi nathan.
Well for a start it is a very sharp and straight forward photo. One hand it says black and white other it says very desaturated colour both really work.
You are a very experienced photographer compared to me but i would do little more to it to make the pendant hit out more.
eclipse round the pendant then invert the eclipse and feather 100 , then gaussian blur by 15 and see if it makes a slight bit of difference also slightly add bit more contrast while its in invert see if it pulls your eye in more to the main part of the pendant. hope this makes sense and its only my opinion
regards jonny
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grumpyman
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 20:18
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hi nathan what i said about the eclipse try on e lager one first then a smaller on after ive tried on a photo i have similar and it does work slightly more but does depend on what they are after.
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TBM
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 20:28
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Nice pic, Nathan. I agree with fotogravensawaay about the need of another crop. But,for personal taste and since the right part of the chain is sharper, I would crop on the left to re-locate the pendant not so in the center. Good luck!
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 21:13
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To know the subject of the competition would be, as fotogravensawaay said, very useful to give you some advice...
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Chriss
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 21:24
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Hi Nathan,
Do it like designer and architects !!
Make a picture (or drawen) of every idea you have. If you have the time and money print them all in a large size. Put all ideas side by side on a wall. If it is possible leave comments on every idea or picture like a storyboard. You find quick favorites and after a few days you see the best one. You have to live with you project that is the key to sucsess.
Greets,
chriss
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 21:30
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... but I can give you my opinion. I think that the picture is good considering the depth of field and composition (even if could be less centered), but for me the proble is that with such a simple subject / topic it has a little lack of interest, so if I where you I would took the risk of a stronger edition. Looking at the histogram you will see that the pendant has a good exposition, but if you make a selection of the skin only, you will notice that there is a lack of contrast that you can take profit, for instance adjusting the levels. I tryed this with your picture in my computer and the result was good from my PoV. This is, selecting only the skin, then press Q to enter the quick mask and apply a slight gaussian out of focus, then press Q again to exit the quick mask and adjust levels in the skin. After this you may need to readjust the color saturation. You can try it and see the result...
One more thing, as fotogravensawaay suggested, it would be better to have a 100 ISO version to have more data for the edition. I wonder if you worked in the RAW file or only in JPEG. The RAW would be much better when talking about a competition.
Hope you find this helpful and that you understand my english :))
Ruden
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 21:36
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Oh!... and I also hope that you win the competition!!!!
So, good luck!
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pansa
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 22:23
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Hi Nathan
I like the idea and also the crop/ However, the skin of the lady (sorry for that) isn't nice. It's what we call in Dutch "chicken skin". Smooth is. It's easy to separate the background from the necklace and PS will do the job.
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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 08 23:58
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THank you all for the contributions.
Answering few of the questions;
The competition has various topics, one of which is "Jewish Life" - Therefore I took the title of the competition by the word and decided on this subject.
Of course I shot in RAW - I always do - To answer Foto's ISO comment - I shot on ISO 400 because the 100mm Macro is not a very fast lens - and even If i wanted to use the widest aperture (f4) natural light wasn't enough for a decent shutter speed. As you can see the speed of 1/45 was barely enough to control the incredibly shallow depth of field and the shaking of camera, and model. It actually wasn't possible to shoot with lower ISO - But i have to say that the file has enough detail and data and on my camera ISO 400 is still very very good.
The suggestion of gaussian blur on the skin is a great one, as long as some focus is kept, because otherwise it will look unnatural, and due to the extremely simple (and boring i know) subject of the composition, I felt there is no space for much manipulation.
I didn't use a flash because that would have spoiled the natural light effect, and also the reflection of the light on the pentand which was what I cared for the most. So no flash.
Regarding the composition, I did crop the image, and I was puzzled about how not to centre the pendant in the image. I decided to put it in the left-left third of the photo. Dividing the picture in thirds, the center of the pendant is more or less on that point.
It didn't feel right to me either, therefore the post. I see what foto is saying, but I didn't retouch anything else in the picture, I didn't blur out anything and intentionally. I wanted to maximise the shallow dof of the lens and not add any blur.
From that I take that I probably don't want to crop the right side of the neckess, because the focus on that side is purely natural. As it is on the other side.
I might put the center of the pendant more to the left, but that would un-balance the composition quite a lot - might try anyway.
Pansa, I don't know the exact meaning of "chicken skin" but I think that this is not the case. See the photograph is shot with a very powerful macro lens, and the pedant is (measured) only 0.8 cm in diameter. So the "chicken skin" effect I think is due to the very strong magnification :D
I know that the subject is not particularly interesting, but i am very interested in the "scientific" side of the composition, and the "personal taste" and the visual stimuli that this provokes.
To conclude - I will try and work on the contrast of the skin -
I am still looking for compositional suggestions regarding the positionning of the pendant in the frame. And also if you think that the frame is necessary (too big / small) or not.
Thank you all so much for you contribution, I am looking forward to hearing more!!!
Hugs to all,
Nathan
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www.imagografie.ch
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 08 06:26
Reply
hi Nathan
if you have the opurtunity to take this picture again.. do it.
in different ways and light compositions if possible. may you can go out in the sun, then you have no problem with hte shutterspeed and iso.... from the side, from above... try every angle! maybe also with different backgrounds, then you find certainly a picture you want.
honestly (and please forgive me if i'm rude!) this picture is nice, but boring. i just miss something and i think you too otherewise you would not have asked our oppinion in this forum... the blur is good but the crop is boring.
i'm looking forward for may other pictures.
and btw, if you like it the way it is, then just take it t o the competition!
@pansa: open the picture, there is no chicken skin... the skin is perfectly good ;-)
greetz
Bunny
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fotogravenswaay
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 08 10:23
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@nathan,
chickenskin = goosepimples.......and sorry Pansa, I don't see it either.....but the idea to smooth the skin is not wrong.
Most of the time when I shoot in macro I use a tripod with a remote control, so the shaking by hand is excluded......
and IMO another crop would add more tension to the picture.
kind regards ruud
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A.Miguel Oliveira
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 02:28
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Nathan, as everyone has one's own vision, here it's my suggestion to the cropping, which here I'd prefer to be on vertical. Besides, the chain comes into the pic from the 2/3 rule from the top and from the right. And it doesn't stand either at the center. The other kind of "work" or approach is so personal, but I hope you don't dislike it . A bit of blur to concentrate on the subject you want to emphasize! Neverthless, at least the cropping I think it's a good idea. Here they go, two versions, with different intensities of blur! Good luck to the Contest! Greets,
Miguel
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A.Miguel Oliveira
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 02:31
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Oh, can anyone tell me if now, that the pics I wanted to show to Nathan are already here, if I can erase them from my portfolio? They will not disappear from here, the Forum? Thanks
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A.Miguel Oliveira
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 02:46
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Sorry, them again as I realized thry can't be erased.
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A.Miguel Oliveira
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 02:47
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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 09:54
Reply
Thank you all soooo much.
I will try different a different approach and show you all the results soon :D
PLease keep them coming, I woul love to have more ideas from fellow members!
THank you all so much,
Hugs,
Nathan
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Oscar_
Moderator
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# Posted: 13 Jan 08 11:46
Reply
Hi Nathan,
I think your picture is very good but it can always be better as you know.
I think cropping as fotogravenswaay said is a very good idea. I like those compositions more then centered.
I had also a little try with your picture but it is very difficult to improve this small jpg file. Would be better to have the original but anyway here is my idea of this picture. I improved something with shadows and highlights espacially for the midtones that I decreased to minus 40 %, gived some better highlights and leaved the shadows as they are. Then I discard the colors.
I think the pendant has to little detail. I see some overexposed areas on it that's a pity. I think using a tripod and use several exposure times will do very good to this kind of pictures. In this case you can manage the details in the pandant.
Good luck with this project and I'm looking forward to your contribution with other pictures.
Regards,
Oscar
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Scott Staley
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jan 08 18:22
Reply
This is a good pic, the subject's skin is perfect
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