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devish
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 07 19:13
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Hello woophy members!
This is where you all come very helpful !!!
I have started thinking about buying a digital SLR camera laterly. I won't buy it for a while yet but I am exploring what the market has to offer.
So far the camera I prefer is the canon eos 400D. I like the features in general and the overal look of it.
My cost range is very limited, I can only afford a cheap SLR, nothing fancy, but, since it will be my first SLR ever I think I can find something proper for my needs anyhow.
Other cameras i was thinking of where the nikon D40 (that i consider a bit too basic) and the nikon D40X, both of these have a limited range of lenses that I will be able to buy later on.
Even the Olympus E400 is nice, but still, my favourite is the Canon EOS 400D.
What do you think about it?
Please, please please reply...I would like to hear your opinion.
Thanks, devish.
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Oscar_
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Oct 07 20:20
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Devish you allready know what I think about the EOS400, told you before by mail.
You descibe that money is a problem, I can imagine that at your age. Probably you go to school these days.
Then you have to ask yourself the question what you want. Do I want a SRL, wich one, what lens, wich options and so on. If you don't have the money you should buy the best there is for the money you have. Maybe you have to say to yourself that you want to buy a better one when you do have the money.
Don't forget that the EOS 400d isn't complete with good lenses. And if you want those but can't afford then you aren't happy with your 400D.
I also searched for the best option a couple of months ago and two different stores told me both that the Nikon with kit lens are the best. The standard lens of Nikon is a Nikkor lens and is better than other kit lenses. They are known as very good lens manufactors.
Maybe the Nikon D40 isn't that bad for a beginner. I think this camera has a lot for the money. You can sale it when you do have the money for a better.
But Devish maybe if you have the change to buy a 400D body for a good price then the rest will come. But if you have to wait so long before you finally can buy something new than you can't be happy with your cam. It is your money and your choice, just think good about it.
The E400 and D40 are good alternatives !!!
I hope I helped you a hand.
With kind regards,
Oscar
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Geoffrey McElwaine
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 07 23:20
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devish. Have you thought about a hybrid ? I use a Sony Cybershot H5, and find it meets more than 90% of my photographic needs. It has a Carl Zeiss lens, 12x zoom. etc. Maybe not as glamourous as DSLR, but as everything comes in one package ( no separate lens, etc. ) it is very practical to carry around. Also, image stabilisation is brilliant in windy conditions.
Hope you find this helpful.
Regards
Geoff. ( Geoffrey McElwaine )
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Bernhard
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 07 23:44
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Devish, I think both DSLRs are good cameras for a start. But you should consider that you won't be happy with only the kit lens for a long time.
With a 18-55 mm lens and a crop factor of 1,5 you will have a focal length from 27-82,5mm. Compared with the lens of your Kodak (35-175mm) you might have to buy a second (tele) lens.
Regarding the Nikon D40/D40x you should know that these don't have an AF-motor. You have to buy lenses that include an own AF-motor (Nikon AF-S, SIGMA HSM etc.) or focus manually.
Regards,
Bernhard
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lonesome runner
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 00:42
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First of all, if you are thinking of buying a SLR in a future moment be aware that there are constantly coming new models which are better and cheaper than what is now in the market. Second be aware of the fact that the (cheap) kit lenses are almost all of disapointing quality. For a good lens you have to pay about half the price of the body (or even more!). And I guess that you want to buy a SLR for their interchangeable lenses, or not? Rather expensive all together.
That brings me to the third point: why exactly do you want to buy a SLR? There are many, many compact camera's today that produce excellent quality pictures. Reasonable priced small camera's with a lot or other advantages than a (heavy) SLR. A lot depends on the fact what you will do with the pictures you produce. If you want to print them in a 50/60 format, O.K. a SLR comes in sight. But your walls fill quickly ... For smaller prints and for the internet many compactcamera's will do. I have seen your portfolio and your pictures looks all right on Woophy. A big thing from a SLR is that you can produce brilliant pictures by handling it completely manual at your own way. If you know how to handle ...
I own a SLR for certain purposes but also a small compact (my third) which I still use frequently. If you look at my portfolio I bet you cannot see the difference between them.
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Paulo Calafate
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 02:34
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At EBAY of uk you can buy a Canon EOS 400D Kit + EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II +4GB+Batt for about 490 Euros.
In ebay.com (USA) you can find better prices, but if you are in Italy you shall have problems with customs.
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A.Miguel Oliveira
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 03:01
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Devish, your choice, to start with a first ever DSLR, and being short of money, would be a good one! However, don't go for the basic kit! It's the only Canon lens I know that it's not good at all (18-55)! If the money can be raised, go for the 17-85, if not, I'd prefer the fixed focal lens 50 f:1.8!!! ( cheap, and it teaches you to move and look for the right compo you want for every particular occasion), while you can't afford to buy a good zoom. If you don't want to stay with a fixed focal and you can't afford the next step, then consider a marvellous compact, cheaper than the DSLR: Leica D-Lux 3! It has even Raw files! 3 sizes (4:3, 3:2, 6:9), 10Mp, zoom eq. 28-105 plus digital zoom till 448mm, all manual facilities, macro, etc!!! Much better features than most basic and medium DSLR! And it's small, all black, and it has video facility with an extraordinary quality (about 30min with 2Gb SD card!!!). ONLY (indeed!) regret: the flash is "short" and can't be added an external one. If you don't need a powerful flash... it's the right camera to start with (MORE than that!), mainly if your money is short for a DSLR with appropriate zoom! Well... I don't sell Leica, I just... bought one myself and ...WOW! (look, and I'm a Canonist!, but as can't afford by now the Canon 1 Ds III ...;) , I stay with my old F-1, EOS-3 and some others, and offered myself this bijou, the Leica, and I'm carrying it everywhere! Love it!
Think about what you can and want... And have a good choice!
All the best!
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Paulo Calafate
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 10:28
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Devish,
for detailed information about the EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II lens see:
Canon EFS 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Maybe the great lens test and the members questions in that forum can help you in your choice.
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Ruud van Ruitenbeek
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 10:34
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Difficult decision and one that will important for the future. Once you have chosen for Nikon or Canon you are very likely to stick with it, especially if you also invest in some good lenses. I disagree with Oscar about the defference in quality of the Nikon and Nikon kit lens. It don't think there is a significant difference. The greater resolution of the Canon 400D compared to the Nikon 40D would be important for me.
However, I don't think you should base your decision solely on what we recommend, most of us (including myself) are biased! There is a really good website that tests most cameras (certainly all Canon and Nikon ones) where you get some objective information:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/
Let us know what you decide to do (and why!)
Ruud's Eye
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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 11:58
Reply
Dear Devish
we have spoken about this already, so i'll just throw in myideas on the topic, just to "mettere piu' carne al fuoco"!!!
I agree with most opinions above, aparts from the ones that suggest you buy a compact camera, because I perfectly know where you come from, and I also know that you want an SLR to improve your skills....
So I will tell you again, to go ahead and buy an SLR but, not too fast.
AS many said, the basic kit lens is often not good enough for professional photography, and that's the point i want to make. It will take you various months to get used to using your new SLR camera in all its functions, I would think that a basic kit lens will help you understand how the camera works in the most effective way. At some point in time, you will (rather soon) realise that the lens is not worth the camera's price, and you'll want to get a better lens.
Now, as lonsesome runner already said, what makes the difference in the SLR world is not so much the body (as they are pretty much similar, and always new and better ones come out) as much as the lens. Lenses are often much more expensive than bodies, and a good lens will really give you the results that you want.
I have tried this myself; Bought a Pentax K10D with kit lens (18-55) which is rubbish, used it for a while and realised that the pics are actually not much better than a point and shoot camera. Then I bought a long tele (75-300) and this was very inexpensive, and even worse than the kit lens. Didn't know what to do, and I got 2 old MF lenses, a 50mm, and a 100mm Macro; these are both about 20 years old, they work perfectly on the camera, and give INCREDIBLE results. So from this i understood that it is actually not worth buying lenses because you need them, but you should wait and buy a good lens whenever you make up the money. I waited quite a long time, and recently bought a TAMRON zoom that really satisfies my needs and covers much of the range of the other 2 lenses.....
In conclusion, i think you should wait some time and buy the CANON 40D the new one, (not the 400d) as it's much better and more advanced. Buy it with the kit lens, which will be good but not great. If you can, wait a few months and read some reviews about this camera and put some more money on the side. Tfhe "old" 400d is already passed and this is the new model, which is supposedly much much better. It will take you a few more months of savings, but will last for longer.
I think that SLR's are a lot about sacrifice, if you can't afford a lens, wait, wait a bit more, then buy it, and you'll be happy for a long long time!
Hope this helped,
big hug and let me know if you need a loan... ;)
p.s. speak with giacomo if you want advice on the 400D - he's got it and trying it will help you choose....
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devish
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 16:02
Reply
My fellow woophy members, I am overwelmed by all the replies and all the attention!
Thank you very much!
I will try and do something systematic and answer to you all:
@Oscar: Thanks for your reply, I will follow your advice and consider all the possiblities.
@Geoffrey: I thank you for your advice, but I just like the idea of a SLR so much. I would really like to learn how to take pictures setting all the options and regulating my self what I can regulate, to make pictures more "manually". I think that the earlier I start the better it is because I am shure it will take me a long time to learn how to use a dslr decently.
@Bernhard: You are right, I hope I will be able to buy a good lens when I feel the need to have one.
@lonesome runner: I will keep in mind what comes out in the next few months, to be updated with the market. I want a SLR for the possibilities that it offers, it would allow me to set the shutter speed and regulate many things that compact lenses automatically do, so it is not a matter of quality (wich still plays a role) as much as possibility. Even the fact that I can change lenses is very appealing to me.
@Paulo: Thaks for the tip, I have got one more question for you (and for Nathan, since I know you are in London) , do I have to pay additional taxes to import a camera from Britain? I know I must pay quite a lot if I want to buy it from the USA. Thanks for the info on the lens.
@Miguel: Thanks for your advice, I never thought of a fixet focal leinght to start with and it actually could be a nice idea.
@Ruud: Thanks for your advice, I had looked before at dpreview.com and I find it a splendid site to get information about cameras.
@Nathan: Thanks for your reply; I think that even if I will wate a bit longer I will still buy a relatively inexpensive DSLR, I looked at the Cann 40D and it is beautiful, but I think that it is a bit too expensive for me and I think that for a start one of the other ones is good for me. Thanks for the tip on Giacomo, I had no idea! I will ask him as soon as I see him.
Thanks again to you all for your advice.
nother question that I have is: Can I use old lenses for old SLR (not digital) on the caera I will buy?
My father has some really good old lenses and if I could use them it would be quite nice!
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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 18:37
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Devish
first of all, I believe that there are no taxes involved in the European Union, so feel free to buy from here. I am not sure if internet sites can charge for taxes but i doubt it; anyway if you want i can buy a camera for you and ship it via ups.
As per the old lenses. ITs the main reason why i bought a pentax K10d. Pentax new slr cameras can be used with all old lenses, bayonet mount. (from 1972)
As per canon, i think that All EF and EF-S lenses will work (FDs old A series cameras wont). << This is info from a reasonably reliable forum.
You should look at the canon website and the manuals for the camera - that will tell you exactly what lens mount the 400d can take. remember that the sensor of digital cameras is smaller and the use is restricted to manual focus and manual settings only (at least for Pentax)
this is the link to the canon 400d manual:
http://www.inwarehouse.se/handbok/CanonEOS400Deng.pdf
hugs to all, devish good luck with all this info ;)
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Oscar_
Moderator
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 20:08
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Devish, as far as I know are old lenses not compatible with the 400D.
The most lenses from Sigma and Tamron are made for 3 manufactors.
Just saw a Canon EOS 400D body with a Tamron 18-200mm lens for 882 euro in the Netherlands. I bought the same for more as 1000 euro's.
Introducing the new 40d will be good for the price of a 400D.
Good luck Devish.
Greetz Oscar
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Paulo Calafate
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 07 20:17
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Devish, I recently bought 5 old lenses to use in my DSLR Pentax K10D.
One of the oldest is this one (about 40 years old) - M42 1,4 - 55mm Auto Revuenon - in EBAY of UK for 22,49 Euros.
Here you are some pics of my cat that I made in JPEG format and without edition work:
ISO 100; f3.5 and 1/750
ISO 100; f3.5 and 1/500
It's a light lens that has good sharpness even wide open. So, you can use high shutter speeds.
I don't know the price for a new one with the same characteristics, but I think it will be too expensive.
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devish
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 07 10:57
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Thanks again for the replies.
that is what i thought, that the cameras I am interested in won't support old lenses. My father has got a 28 mm, a 105 mm tamron and a 200 mm tamron.
Nathan, the manual is very helpful, thanks.
Yes Oscar, I didn't think of the fact that the 40d will lower prices!. Plus I am waiting for right after cristmass and I hope that prices will go down for a while after all the shopping for presents.
Really nice photos Paulo, the detail is wonderful. This is exactly why I want a SLR. One of the reasons is that I can choose where to focus the image (say the face of the cat in this picture). With a compact (or at least mine) the hole cal would be pretty much focused, and i might not want that some times.
Thanks again to you all!
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kombizz
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 07 07:14
Reply
Have you considered to have the Sony Alpha A700, the 2nd generation?
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devish
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 07 11:52
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Never heard of it before Kombizz, it looks like a nice camera but again, think it is a bit too expensive and I don't know how good a sony could be for a slr...
One last question, actually quite important for me.
One of the "features" of photography I like is the time of exposition (shutter speed in english, I think) anyhow, the possibility of keeping the lens open for a certain amount of time (1/400 os a second, 5 secons and so on). Do digital Slrs have the opportunity to choose this function for how long I want. My father's old SLR has a little wire that you connect to the camera and that you click, and with that you can keep the lens open for how much you want. Can I do this (other that just choose between 1/4000 1/2 ecc ecc ) on a DSLR????
Thanks again, Bye.
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Nathan Servi
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 07 03:12
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Devish,
My camera has shutter speeds from 1/4000 or a second to 30 seconds in all modes.
There is a Bulb mode that allows you to have the sutter open for as long as you want - as long as you keep the shutter release pressed. (or by remote control)
The canon 400 D surely has this function, check it in the manual -
As per your question about the 350D in the other forum. I strongly suggest you don't go for it, its already been replaced by many other models, (400, 30, 40, 5d and the big ones D and Ds) so its going to be out of production very soon. I think that you can either go for the 400D - as you seem to having made up your mind already! - or a newer model.
I did suggest the pentax K10 because its not too expensive, like the canon 400d - the sony is very very expensive, and the nikon's only model that would be worth buying for you is the D40X - in general, don't go below 10mp...
p.s. isn't it weird to keep on having conversations in english?
p.p.s. neat not neet.... ;)
Big hug
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devish
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 07 13:51
Reply
Hello to all, since you have all been very helpful in helping me make my decision I though I'd let you know that I bought the camera (canon 400d) and it arrived two days ago.
I would like to thank you all very much for all the help you gave me and I would like to thanks woophy in general that gave me the burst to buy a camera.
So thanks again, I can't wait to share my results with you!
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