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David-H
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 07 16:06
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I would like to improve the definition I am getting in my skies so I'm looking for any information or experience anyone may have on using ND grad filters. I have looked at Cokin and Lee. Cokin are more in the price range at about half the cost of Lee but I have seen adverse comments about some colour problems (brown caste) when using Cokin. What do other Woophy members use? Or are there other makes I should be considering?
David
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ruud regeer
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 07 23:05
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That's a coincidence -- I just bought a polarizer for the same purpose! It's made by Hama and costs about 30 euros. It works best at a 90 degrees angle from the sun where it blocks out a lot of the blue, leaving the clouds untouched. This is what I mean...
The best filters are thin and multicoated, to prevent vingetting and ghost reflections respectively. Mine is neither, but I'm satisfied with the results it gives.
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David-H
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 07 19:35
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Thank you Ruud. I certainly can see a lot more retained sky detail in your picture. The reason I was looking for experience of ND Grad filters is their ability to retain sky detail in B+W (especially with grey skies) as I am a big fan of B+W (for over 30 years). I rarely shoot colour and convert - I prefer to shoot B+W as a deliberate choice when the subject suits using yellow/orange or red filters. However, maybe I should start with a polarizer like you and see what improvements it brings. We don't get as much sun in the UK as you do in Europe and certainly where I live grey skies are common.
Thanks
David
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pansa
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 07 21:42
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I am also a great "afficionado" of polarization filters. It costs you a few stops in diaphragm but the result is (in general) great. Waiting for a new one because I dropped my camera on a concrete floor and the pol. filter was smashed. Nikon seems to have a policy of not shipping these filters.
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ruud regeer
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 07 21:29
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Hi David,
I turned my polarizer against an overcast sky today, and it had no effect whatsoever on the contrasts in the clouds, nor did it dim them anymore than it did the rest in the view. It just darkened the whole scene.
I suspect that a neutral density gradient filter (dark on top, clear at the bottom) might be more useful with murky skies.
A slight brownish hue will probably make no difference if you're shooting B&W, so if I were you I would go for the Cokin.
Please send us an example with and without your ND grad as soon you have one!
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David-H
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 07 21:52
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Thanks for the experiment Ruud. I don't think I can justify the cost of the Lee ND filters. I could have the Cokin set and a polarizer for less than the cost of the Lee filters. It doesn't appear many people ay Woophy use ND filters (or they haven't said so yet). I was hoping someone would say they have them and they are great or they have them but don't use them very often - which would give me more to go on. I'll let you know when I make my mind up. I shall probably go for a polarizer anyway having seen the effect you acheived.
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Wilfred
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 07 14:32
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Just some examples (from my own images because I know what I used)
Shot with a Tiffen 0.6 ND grad filter (DSLR)
Hama 0.6 ND grad filter (analog 35mm rangefinder, slide)
No-name linear polarizer (analog 35mm SLR, slide)
As you can see here, the effect of a polarizer at high elevations can sometimes be too much!
If you are shooting in B&W I would seriously consider using a red or orange filter. The result would be something like this:
Scan from analog slide; blue and green channel removed and converted to B&W to obtain the effect of a red filter.
Keep in mind that when shooting B&W film using a red filter you may need to use a tripod because the filter absorbs about 2/3 of the light and you will need to expose a long time. Personally I prefer to convert from color to obtain the same effect. If you shoot digital it doesn't make sense to let your camera do the conversion to B&W: shoot in color, don't use a filter and remove the blue and green channels afterwards.
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David-H
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 07 16:55
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Thanks for the info. You have given me plenty to think about. I'll play about with some of my coloured images and see how a conversion to B+W goes. Historically I used coloured filters withB+W film and have used the 'in-camera' filters on my Canon 30D when shooting digital B+W.
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Wilfred
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 07 21:26
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Look for "channel mixer" instructions on the internet. The Channel Mixer is an adjustment tool in Photoshop - I guess other software offers something similar.
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ruud regeer
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 07 22:00
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36Clicks wrote a tutorial on B&W conversion with the channel mixer. It's here :
http://www.woophy.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=12&topic=13 31
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vahephoto
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 07 19:33
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Hi David,
A couple of more things to consider: If you're shooting with a 30D, you should always use the raw format, as it is superior to even the best jpeg you'll get from that camera. Shooting raw also allows you to "process" the image as you please. Now, as far as ND grad filters are concerned, I would steer away from Cokin, because it's not a neutral filter and has a color cast, as you noted. I personally use Singh-Ray filters (singh-ray.com), which are less expensive than the Lee and run about $100 each. They are individually manufactured and are available for Cokin P mounts, and you get to select the step size (one to four stops) and whether you want a soft or hard edge. They also sell a reverse grad filter, as well as a warming polarizer that I use on almost every shot.
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David-H
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 07 20:43
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Thanks for all the info. There is a lot of advice on the site that I had missed. I have used the raw format on a couple of shoots and there is much more manipulation available - given the time. I must admit that I was impressed with what could be done with an image and not lose any quality, I just need to become more proficient with it (and buy some more memory!!). Having criticized Cokin against what I had picked up from comments on the web I have been loned a set of Cokin ND grads - so I shall have a play around with them before I commit myself to spending my £££'s. I have talked to Formatt Filters here in the UK as I had seen favourable comments about their filters but getting hold of a wide angle holder and adaptor for my 17-40L will take a little while from them. They do their own filters but contract out the fabrication of adaptors and holders and the next batch is someway off. I have still to source a polarizer but am thinking of a Hoya Pro1. I just hope my pics improve in line with the investment in resin and glass........
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