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pansa
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jul 07 22:19 - Edited by: pansa
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It is time to continue the estafette started by Nivad a week ago. I selected the photo of a red-bearded pirate from the work op Geoffrey McElwaine. Why this picture and why this photographer? To start with the last item: I like the work of Geoff very much. He makes a kind of “stilled” photographs composed of strong but simple shapes, using well saturated colours. Most times his pictures are tightly cropped to the essentials. A very personal and recognizable style.
Now why the picture of the red-bearded pirate? It attracted my attention already as thumbnail because:
1) The very natural character of the pirate. It’s a real pirate, nice red face and reddish beard, so not somebody in disguise.
2) Good composition with the pirate at a strong point and sufficient space in the viewing direction. For me that is important in portraits and in pxs that express “motion” so that the observer can follow the view or motion without falling out of the picture.
3) Good choice for the landscape format as element in the composition.
4) Good lighting.
I like the picture because of its simplicity and strong expression.
Negative points (for improvement) are:
1) The face is slightly out of focus. The focus is on the hat not on the face.
2) Distracting elements like the strap around the right arm and the pole in the upper right corner.
3) Disturbing background that is too sharp (too large DOF).
Suggestions for improvement:
1) Tighter cropping to remove the strap, the pole and the accordion. The disadvantage of the latter is that you no longer know that the pirate is playing accordion. However, the character is so strong that the photo survives the cropping. IMO it even becomes stronger and a bit more mysterious.
2) Post-processing to blur the background. I did some experiments and got surprisingly good results (of course IMO) by selecting the model with the lasso tool, copy and paste and then using some radial blur for the background.
So a good picture with some potentials for improvement.
I invite Geoffrey to continue this topic next Sunday (29/7) and my Woophy friends to give their view on this picture. Geoff (when he likes it) to upload the makings for discussion in the forum.
Greetings
Pansa
 photo by Geoffrey
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Geoffrey McElwaine
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 07 00:09 - Edited by: Geoffrey McElwaine
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Nivad. An inspired choice of Forum topic ! You’ve given photographers an opportunity to provide some background to a picture selected by a fellow member, and all members the chance to comment more fully than is possible in the “ Comments ” box. I welcome both – I think ! May I, however, urge those commenting on this, and other photographs, to bear in mind wise words from my favourite poet, W.B. Yeats :
“ But I, being poor, have only my dreams ;
I have spread my dreams under your feet ;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. ”
From ' The Wind Among the Reeds '
Pansa. I am both flattered and surprised to have you thrust one of my photographs into the spotlight -
An interesting choice : it is not, IMO, among my better pictures, although it has been very generously rated. It, however, does illustrate rather well my common problem : keeping the image separate from the emotions and feelings experienced when taking it. In this case, I consider that my picture is too closely linked to the circumstances when it was taken. This was at a local event, to encourage tourists to visit the sea-side town where I live - Bangor. Among the attractions was a replica " pirate ship ”, manned by " pirates ”. I quickly warmed to the day’s atmosphere – crowds of onlookers, the ship’s novelty, and the noise. In particular, this " pretend pirate ”, sitting on the ship's deck playing an accordion to draw the crowds, seemed to demonstrate the day’s “ essence ”. Looking at the image now, more objectively, I realize that I allowed myself to be over-influenced by all my sensory experiences. I can still hear the sound, and probably compromised the picture’s quality by my unwillingness to totally eliminate his accordion. I suspect that I should have cropped it more severely. Perhaps I need to learn not to be so sentimental !
Regards
Geoff.
P.S. Pansa's two ' improvements -
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W.Z.
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 07 11:00
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Hi All,
As I commented earlier this pic: I really like the compo.
More precise I like how all the surrounding lines point to the face.
- both arms,
- dividing line of the two drapes,
- rope on the white drape
- the tie-ish thingy (sorry don't know the propper word for it)
Also the line in the hat is almost exactly on the 2nd diagonal.
And like Pansa said, the strap of the harmonica was breaking quite a few of those.
What I don't like in the compo is the fact that the face itself is a wee bit too centered.
I think the compo would improve still cropping it in function of the eyes and mouth.
Secondly, I think the redish colour of the face looks a little too warm to me compared
to the rest of the pic, making the man look like a very gentle person, where you'ld expect
a pirate to be slightly more aggressive looking. (you've probably taken this shot at
200ASA with a rather colourful film?)
ISO lowering the saturation, I'ld use a dark blue photo filter to reduce the red and leave the apperance of the background as it is.
After making these two adjustments the photo looks as followed:
(crop to 1.618 X 1; photofilter R45 G65 B91 at 74%; brightness -7)
Again, I really liked the orignial version a lot.
This is only what I would change to it for my personal taste (very weird sometimes hahaha)
Kind Regards,
W.Z.
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soyoban
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 07 13:48
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Hi everybody,
usually i don't comment portrait.
The only portrait i like, are woman and music player...
So this "pirate" is a music player.
For me the only appeals of this picture are the instrument(with the player theoretically) and the red face of "pirate".
With the original picture, unfortunately we don't see totally the accordion...
After the improvement, the red face is set off indeed.
On the over hand, i don't like W.Z. improvement because face is not red enough...
Greetings.
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devish
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 07 16:17
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Hi,
I'll just comment with what is my modest personal taste, won't give any technical judgment because I am not capable of that. Anyhow, I like the picture, it is a well taken picture, and I consider it a nice portrait, but it doesn't say too much to me. There are however some elements that I like a lot: since I like geometrical figures in photos in this picture I like the accordion a lot as well as the hat, with all it's stripes and curves. Another nice element are the B & W sheets on the background
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Dieuwertje
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 07 16:51
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Hello, I just studied the comments and I don't agree. I like the original pict because it say something about what he is doing, playing the accordion, after all the crops only a portrait is left, it's loosing action. ( sorry for my english)
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Corneel Timmermans
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 07 10:08
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Hi,
I agree with Diewertje, the surroundings are essential to this photo.
The (motion) blur is not in it's place because there is no motion and the blurring only distracts. I would brighten up the light, I guess I find it little darkish on the left side...especially round the face..
Corneel
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Dave Moore
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 07 20:30
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The background and body of the man are black and white and don't distract from the important parts of the photo, namely his face and the accordian. For me the composition is a little wrong, like W.Z. I feel it'd be better with the man more towards the left of frame, but the accordian needs to stay as without it the photo loses meaning. I like my photos contrasty, this is my take on how I would improve it, although of course, everyone's taste is different:
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Zazi
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jul 07 00:34
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Intriguing topic, Nivad! Love the way it gets passed, an excellent concept of community and sharing of opinions. Suggest we use caution with some members that don't want any suggestions, no matter how helpful we think we might be. (Love Goeff's quote by Yeats)
Anyway, my thoughts on this capture by Geoff, are very basic:
- I think the ruddy complected "pirate" shows the true skin colours of the western Europeans. The pale blue eyes, with red & white whiskers is right on.
- I do like the accordion being included, as well as the background that includes the rope & what appears to be the folded sheets of the sails.
-At first glance, I thought that I wanted the wood in the upper right corner to be removed. I'm still not certain, but I do like the way that the colours of that wood, tie into the wood behind the "pirates" right shoulder, and then into the instrument. Sort of a triangular affect, that draws attention to the main subject.
*Hey! Anyone else feeling as though our comments, observations, and constructive suggestions, are under as much scrutinizing ... As the photos?
Hope you don't mind my suggestion to eliminate the word, "criticism", since it has such a negative connotation? (Just a thought/suggestion.)
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bruha
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jul 07 10:56
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I still prefer the original photo, it has a real salty feel to it. The subject is of Celtic stock so has red hair, red skin and of course a ginger beard just like a lot of men in my country (including me). However I would have liked to have seen the entire accordion in the frame as after all he is an accordionist and maybe some indication of what he is looking at with that far away look in his eyes Is it distant horizons, a pretty girl or maybe a handsome four masted schooner bound for distant shores. Maybe it is the pub on the corner.
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Paulo Calafate
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jul 07 22:27
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It´s a good spontaneous portrait with natural colors. The face expression has strenght and his look is very well guided.
If it was me the photographer I would try to catch more accordian and put more focus in the eyes.
The background don't distract us and the only think that I removed would be the rope over the hat.
I don't like the overexposition of the the sleeve on the right side of the image.
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Gary Walsh
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jul 07 17:54
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Nice photo and well chosen Pansa. After reading the comments here is my version based on what people have already said i.e. cropping, erasing the strap etc.
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bruha
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jul 07 00:17
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That's very well done Gary - 5
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pansa
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jul 07 08:17 - Edited by: pansa
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Nice version Gary. Good diagonal compo and nicely blurred background. How did you make the blur BTW?
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Aline
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jul 07 11:33
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I agree in a large part with the Pansa's analysis :
- Positive points :
Very natural character of the pirate (I like the redish face),
Good composition (In my mind, it doesn't need cropping),
Sober background
- Negative points
Face out of focus,
Too large DOF (good correction made by Gary on this point, gaussian blur is a good choice)
This portrait doesn't speak very much to me, but this is a pure personal taste which have nothing to do with the opinion I can have about the technical qualities of the picture.
But I think I would have been more attracted by the picture, even without real interest, if the man looked more at the photographer, or at least if his eyes were not hidden. It would have given more life and intensity to the portrait.
Very difficult as he was not posing !
It is not a negative critic, I hope you will understand.
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Nivad
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 07 10:46
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I am happy my initiative survived its first week, so i would thank you all to react so enthousiast to this topic :)
As for this weeks pictures I can only agree with the things what have already been said:
The most important critic was imo the wrongly situated focus. I was always told to focus on the eyes.
I must disagree with Aline, however she is right about the remark concerning the eyes, but the right eye is visible. When you enlarge the image you can clealy see an iris and a pupil.
About the compo. I am not in favor of cropping away the accordeon. Simply because it add some story to the pic. It tells something about it. Cropping it away makers this more an ordaniry portrait wich could have been shot from everybody. Though I would have chosen to show some more of the instrument even completely when it would have possible.
The background on the original might have been a bit more blurred. Wich could been done in postproduction but that radial blur isn't the right option, it gives an impression of movement while the tranquility of the background is a positive point. Gary's way of blurring the background is much better for that case.
A very good point about the background is that the lines leads the towards the subject and it isn't to colorful or distracting.
A remark wich a didn't read yet, or maybe I passed it? When I enlarged the picture I clearly saw some spots on the the man wich should have been retouched.
After all it is a fine portrait, one that I can be jealous on simply because my protraiting skills aren't very good, so this topic was also quite learnfull.
Grtz
Nivad
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Nivad
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 07 10:58
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This came to my mind, maybe it wouldn't be bad to add a link to the forum topic in the discription box of the picture if it was chosen for the weekly photo discussion...
Grtz
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Gary Walsh
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 07 11:18
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@ Pansa - Like Aline pointed out, the blur is gaussian blur.
I too agree with Nivad on the fact that removing the accordion does take some of the story from the picture but as a photo it didn't look right as the straps were over powering and there wasn't enough of the instrument shown on the original picture.
Now the photo tells me a different story. One of a fisherman who looks out at the sea with a lifetime of memories from working, battling and surviving with the sea.
Another question: I edited this picture and then had to add to 'My Collection'. It is not my photo and already I have one comment on it. The title of the photo is 'Photo by Geoffrey McElwaine' but still it is in my collection and not mine. If I remove it it will be removed from the forum. So does anyone have any suggestions on that?
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W.Z.
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 07 11:32
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@gary: that problem has been covered a couple of times but never fully solved.
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scarlet
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 07 12:58
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You can also put a comment on the photo because I've noticed people often don't read captions. but will read comments. But W.Z. is right, you will not solve the issue. I wish there was a way to repost a fellow member's photo with a different background color or other visual indicator.
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