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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 11:15 - Edited by: Geoffrey McElwaine
Fellow members : Greetings !
When I first joined Woophy, in November 2006, there were two types of member -
a. Those, like myself, seriously interested in taking better pictures ; and
b. Others who were content to use the site as a kind of electronic photo album.
My impression was that, at that time, there was a significant number in the former group. Comments on each other's pictures, Forum discussions, etc. were evidence for the existence of a lively community of keen photographers within Woophy. Sometimes, those in the second group, aware of their camera's greater, more creative, possibilities, asked for advice, and moved into group a.
Over this past year, or so, I've noticed a change. Gradually, group a. members have felt themselves overwhelmed by the sheer number of " group b. " pictures being uploaded. One by one, they have slipped away, leaving a small remnant among which, until recently, I was one.
This situation is continuing to gather pace. The final " straw " which " broke " this long-suffering " camel's back " was the recent uploading, by one member [ who shall remain nameless ! ], of 50+ pictures ( most of which, at best, might be described as ' mediocre ' ) on a single day.
Inevitably, this shift in emphasis has radically changed Woophy, and leaves me to wonder whether there is any longer a place on the site for members like me ? As you will know, from my comment in another topic, until this issue is addressed, and resolved - one way or the other - I am suspending further action on my account, and am uploading pictures to a newly opened Flickr account. While doing so, I have noticed many former Woophy fellow-members have already done so.
What do other Woophy members think ? Is there a future on Woophy for keen photographers ?
Greetings
Geoff. ( Geoffrey McElwaine )
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 12:25
Hi Geoff,
I think that if there is one place on the web which is (also) used as ' a kind of electronic photo album' it is the very website you are leaving to. Of course they have huge amounts of great pictures and great photographers but that site has an incredible amount of boring and insignificant pictures too.
Also I think that if you look to the current Woophy forum and blog many people having serious and interesting discussions about their photography.
Last I wrote the (one) guy (the one you don’t want to tell the name) an email a couple of days ago asking him what his idea behind this huge upload was. I have not received answer yet but I told him that we always could restrict his Woophy account.
Joris
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 14:49
Hi there 
I have cleaned my "box" and deleted about 400 photoes to make some room for other
Maybe we all are supose to do this now and than. Becouse woophy is not exactly a webhotel, but a place were I love the people, and like spending time.
Joris say this:
Last I wrote the (one) guy (the one you don’t want to tell the name) an email a couple of days ago asking him what his idea behind this huge upload was. I have not received answer yet but I told him that we always could restrict his Woophy account.
It is not me! But it made me think a little...if do really need all the space on woophy ?? I make my photoes as small I can for not using too much space.
Take care people Love you all!!
Willy
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 18:08
I strongly agree with Joris. This is a passionate site and have an attentive and generous moderator.
As all the tings in this world, Whoopy can be certainly better. In this moment I think that it is the best for me. There is in our own hands to do better, of course, day by day.
Here we can encounter a lot of artistry and sure other works that are not good. But, in general, photographers increase their works and share blogs with a remarkable quality.
Here we may do good friends - I´ve done closer friends, a community with strong similar interests in doing photography and learn about it.
Now, my contribution in this discussion is:
(i) I hope in the future to see a more photographic culture, in order to reach more full method development in comments and ratings, because I feel they are a lot of times very pleonastic and redundant - but also is very difficult to write a methodic watching of a photo, when we have a great "thrist" of seeing and write about a lot of images...
(ii) Also I would like to see in the next times any kind of rules to don´t allow downratings from people that are not so serious as we can expect. This is a real problem here.
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 19:05
I understand Geoffrey's opinion coming from a talented and a serious photographer, who has been in Woophy for a long time and used to see it as an "elitist" site, where lots of excellent amateur (?) photographers shared their experiences and appreciated clever comments from others. Photos were only uploaded if they were really good.
When I joined Woophy in April 2008, I noticed there were some "gurus", who were and are still worshipped by others, whose ratings will always be 5 no matter what and who know as much about techniques as real professional photographers.
I myself love seeing their good photos taken by these talented photographers, exceptional pics and even better comments.
But as everything on the Net, the site became more and more populated and maybe now there are too many photos uploaded by the minute, no time to see them all or to comment on them, many of these photos (including most of mine) are not worth being uploaded, Woophy is no longer a small spot where friends meet and discuss technical matters. But who is to judge the quality of the pics except us all?
I'm very happy to be here, I think I have made some virtual friends, whom I respect and admire, I love coming here at the end of the day and see what's new in the forum, this week there was this idea of changing others' pics and we had some fun and we showed some imagination and humour altogether. It was fun  . Topics are interesting and we learn a lot through others' ideas and creativity.
I wouldn't quit Woophy, I thank those who make it possible and would feel very sad if people like you , Geoffrey, started abandoning the place where your portfolio has been always appreciated and you have made some friends. You don't know us, but we know YOU.
Hope I haven't bored you expressing what I feel and think.
Virgínia
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 20:10
Geoff, please don't leave!
I understand your point of view (I myself felt near to leave when I found some members cheating and showing unfriendly behaviour, through "empty" discussions at the Forum, anonymous and continuous extreme-low rating towards the very same other members, through nasty comments, etc, but fortunately they are half a dozen among some hundreds of active members, and so I keep on going at this site where I've been able to share and watch to pics, some excellent ones, others above average, [and though many mediocre ones we can ignore them] but also where I made really great friends - I only regret to have less free time this year)! Neverthless, as I said, we must take the best of Woophy! It was you, yoursef, who made me stay, remember? . Thank you for that! Once, I entered Flickr page and left 5 m afterwards! For me it was confusing, and too big to feel like home. Regarding Woophy, even when I have no time for posting and/or commenting, the page is opened in my laptop, at my writingdesk, and from time to time I look at the photos' page. Many times I have a smile when I see a newly posted pic, or one comment, from someone I know (and many times someone for so long I hadn't seen over here and almost feel like stopping my school work and say a quick "hello").
The upload limit is, really, something I guess also Joris must be thinking about, not to happen things like those you both refer. IMHO, I even think that Woophy could improve and have additional financial resources if two (or even 3) kind of members were created: 1. Invited-members - free of charge with a maximum of 1 pic/day and 20 pics overall (could make comments but not rating); 2. Silver-members - 10€/year, with a maximum of 3 pics/day and 365 total of his/her portfolio; Golden-members - 15€/year, with a maximum of 5 pics/day and unlimited total upload. Just an "working" idea
Well, Geoff, maybe our future, at Woophy, comes through something similar to this idea of introducing this kind of limits (and, so, also improving financial resources to the management staff and keeping away those who come into for nasty reasons), but, till then... STAY with us, right?).
Big hug from a sunny Porto (when do you come "down" here? After all, the one who is already retired is you),
Miguel
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 23:06
Hi Geoff,
Like you, I am affected by the way Woophy has evolved. It originally attracted me because of its wonderful map and stated aims of photographing the world. Where else on the web can you get a 'warts and all' picture of so many villages, towns and cities all on one site; some of the photographs taken by local photographers in India and other Asian countries have really opened my eyes to their every-day living conditions and have changed my attitude to so many things. For every gem you get a handful of stones, but I can live with that.
My photography is restricted to documenting the coastal areas and villages of my beloved South/West Wales, and recording the growing up of my grandchildren. Before I joined Woophy there were very few photographs of South/West Wales, I hope I have addressed that deficiency a little. As you may have noticed from my portfolio - I'm a pretty rubbish photographer and I admit it, but I am a bit of a perfectionist in other ways. That attitude rubs off in my photography which is why I do not post many pics - I simply do not have the talent (to my deepest regret) for it, but it still doesn't stop me from trying in my modest capacity.
Which, long windedly, brings me to the point of this post. Woophy is now like raindrops falling on a lake - hundreds of individual ripples. Each 'ripple' a collection of like-minded individuals, enjoying their particular type of photography and each others company, and who can belong to as many or as few ripples as they like - unaffected by the activities of other 'ripples'. Why not just enjoy the activities in your particular favourite ripple(s) and ignore all the rest. If the activities of a few antisocial ripples start to impact on the rest of us, let Joris and co. sort it out - thats what their there for surely?
Don't throw in the towel, Geoff, throw yourself into the deep end of your particular ripple and let the rest of the world (Wooph) go by instead. I'm sure there is more than enough action in your particular brand of photography to keep you interested and fully involved with all those like-minded colleagures you met at Kampden (I hope I have spelled it correctly) last year, and who would deeply mourn your leaving. I already note your reduced involvement in the forum discussions, and I sincerely hope that it never reduces to zero.
Best regards
TGB
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 23:13
I'm of the c group (the president), composed by those that can live with the others groups: the a, the b, the c itself and with all that appear 
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# Posted: 13 Feb 09 23:48
Dear Geoffrey, let me tell you that there might be something wrong in your perspective. It's no use complaining about the (really outstanding) quantity of less-than-average uploads on Woophy. A certain amout of noise is unavoidable in the Internet. Or, as one of Murphy's laws says, "Dirt is the 80% of All". I do not know Flickr very well, and I do not know if things go better there. But I know that there always is a trade-off between freedom of access and quality. If you raise the first, you jeopardize the latter.
What you are complaining about is real, but it is simply the consequence of the success of Woophy - hundreds of thousands pics posted on one site, thousands of members joining the community. We must accept the fact. And, to answer your question, yes, there is room for keen photographers, since there is room for all.
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 00:35
dear woophians,
flickr had 4,562 uploads in the last minute. that's the amount of uploads woophy has in maybe 5 days.
yes, woophy offers room for all. and i'm glad that it's not that crowded as flickr. main reason why i'll stay.
good night,
geert
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 00:56
I like it here, it's comfortable and cozy. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a living room sitting by the fire and talking to good fellows.
I don't post any picture for about three weeks (I don´t have much time to go out...), but every single day I return here.
Where else can you find a forum like Paulo Calafate's or Ridar's? Or a blog like A.Miguel Oliveira?
Perhaps you could ask Akbar, Lali or La Rafale why they returned back after leaving Woophy.
I told this before: Life is short, then you die
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 09:26
Wise words Abilio, I also rather take pictures of windmills than fighting them and there is enough to enjoy on Woophy despite its shortcomings
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 09:28
Dear Geoff, please don't leave,
This problem of "Only the best" applies to so many areas of endevour in the world.
In sport you are no good unless you have an Olympic gold medal, in entertainment you are a failure unless you have sold a zillion gold records, in politics you are useless unless you have destroyed an entire nation.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and photography is art. Some of the offerings on woophy I think are terrible but to others, going by the response, are works of art. So be it.
Maybe my entries of endless bloody beaches are boring to someone living in a tenement in Dusseldorf but that is my environment and what you see is what you get.
Maybe there is a way to overcome the pictorial v artistic entries, frankly I can't imagine how, but I'm sure there are enough buttons on our keyboards to work out our own remedy.
So please stay Geoff, you live in a beautiful part of the world and I do so enjoy your entries.
Bruce M
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 09:33
P.S. there is always a P.S
There is no way I can wade through a daily ration of up to 1,ooo photo entries.
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 11:07 - Edited by: joopvandijk
Dear Geoff,
I understand very well your complains, but it would be sad to leave woophy.
I.M.O. woophy is a great site to get contacts all over the world, the best place to get new contacts.
I didn't have this experience yet at other websites. I'm active at Flickr since 2 years and I got not more than about 5 real serious contacts. (when I don't count the contacts with woophy history)
At facebook, almost all contacts: woophy history
An event like woophy day? I wonder if it should be possible at other sites.
So: perhaps woophy is not the best quality photo site, but wich one is....
to anwer the question: what's woophy's future: If people like you and also Akbar, la rafale, Nonkel duvel, and many other good members) will stay it will maintain to be a great site with some negative elements...
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 14:38
Dear Geoff,
Like you I am bored when I discover some 50 or more pictures uploaded by the same member without any effort to search the better one. As said TBM, this is the law of 80/20...But for me Woophy is more of that. I have also tried some other sites, like Flickr, or other, but never retrieved the same conviviality, and as Miguel I feel lost very rapidly.
They are to huge, too complicated.
I'm not sure than It's possible on other site to share moments like that or like all the others Woophy days :
  
OK, you can think this is not only a pure photographic POV.But sharing a photo, in my opinion, is more than sharing perfect technic (even if obviously it's important to improve our way to make photos) This is also share sensitivity, emotion or humour of a momemnt, and meet people who react to the same feelings. This is not pure coincidence, if when meeting with all these other Woophy members we feel so well together, if we discover than they share some mails or comments, with the same other Woophians members.
And, Yes, in Woophy this is possible, we share a common passion for photos, but we have also the same values. Dear Geoff, I really hope, you will one day visit Loire Valley, and I kindly invite you to share some instants (and a glass of wine of the Loire) with Daniel and I, to decide you to stay in our not so virtual community.
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 15:10
Hi Geoff,
like a number of older members, I am no more a woophaholic (to use a term created by Nonkel Duvel, I think). But that doesn't mean that I am going to leave Woophy. I tried other sites, and I can tell you that all of them have their drawbacks. They can be better than Woophy in some respect, but they also have deficiencies (and very often, the same as Woophy's).
Just take from Woophy the features that you like, and forget about the others. As for myself, I am not uploading anymore many pics, but I like very much (e.g.) the 14-day challenge (and I regret that so few members are taking the challenge). I have a personal website, where I link to my Woophy pics and blogs (also a nice feature): it is very handy. As I started that website before I joined Woophy, I had painstakingly contructed a map with the locations that I had visited; I replace it now with a link to the Woophy map, which is much simpler.
To conclude, I think that it is a mistake to fall in love with a virtual community. Just join it, and use its best features.
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 16:13 - Edited by: pansa
Dear friends
Three days ago I left for a short holiday to Sweden. There I found a computer to connect to Woophy and found this topic. I agree with Geoffrey and many others. The site is not perfect and I am diminishing my upload myself. But like Ortho said there are a couple of interesting topics left although I am not a great afficionado of the 14day challenge (but that is personal). But regularly you spot a new member with a great px and that makes the Woophy life worth living. So my dear Geoff please stay with us on the barricades of photography.
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 16:50
The grass is always greener by the neighbors.
You know what I mean. There are problems on every site and no one is perfect.
Please don’t leave Woophy........
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# Posted: 14 Feb 09 17:22
Well said Oscar, I still love Woophy the most of all. I met some nice friends on this site too
And so now and than I clean up some old pictures for new ones, so I hope it will not boring at all.
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