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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 20:15
Reply
Dear “woophers”:
For a long time I wanted to post a new topic in the forum, only I didn't expect that my first one would be so sad, but I just came back from my holidays and sadly I found in my e-mail box the next comment about the picture shown above: “De esta basura estan las calles llenas” what in english would mean more or less “STREETS ARE FULL OF THIS RUBISH”…
The responsible for this comment is a member named Kiebres.
As I can’t not see any rubish in the picture I understand that this member is talking about the gipsy girl. So the question is:
- A member who considers a human being (moreover in a difficult situation) like rubish is wellcome in woophy?
- There is any possibility to kick him out from this site?
- Is it posible to withdraw such a nasty comment from the list? I don’t want any comment from this member neither any point… Otherwise I would have to remove the picture and for me that would be a pity…
Anyway, what made me more upset is that I visited the collection of this member (not rated anything) and I can see that he, or she, has a family and also what seems to me a really sweet daughter… I hope that he is not talking to this little girl in such terms about other human beings.
That’s all, I'll be waiting for some help in this...every comments and suggestions will be, as always, wellcome!
P.S. By the way, Thank you for all comments received during the summer, I was abroad and I didn't have the opportunity to answer... but I'm comming back to woophy with many energy!
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Jacky
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 20:26
Reply
Being new here, I don't feel to comfortable posting replies, but with an issue like this I cannot keep quiet. I come from South Africa where apartheid and racism is still a huge issue. I couldn't agree with you more, this member should be banned from the site - I would not want to be associated in any way, no matter how indirectly / distant, from someone posting such comments!!!
With regards to his/her family, we here in SA know that the way you bring up your children with regards to different cultures & people, and the example you set, will influence the way they perceive the rainbow country they're living in and it could make or break their futures, as well as their humanity.
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joopvandijk
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 20:43
Reply
This was a very bad comment.
In a woophy world of 21.000 members you have many different opinions.
The fact is: do we accept that there are opinions that we don't like or do we kick them from the site.
My opinion is: accept them how sad it is.
I don't like it but I also don't like to kick everyone out who has a different opinion than me.
Simple said: woophy is also a little bit a mirror of the world, with it's good an bad sites.
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 20:57
Reply
I don't agree in this case with you joopvandijk, although of course I respect your opinion. The thing is, IMO, that there are some comments that attempt on basic human rights. I can accept that someone considers my pictures like rubish, for exemple, but I can not tolerate that someone tells that a gipsy is rubish... I'll be removing this picture in few days if there is no solution for this matter, as I fi¡ound this comment no t offensive for me but for the girl in the picture, that has not any fault in this.
Thank you for your comment anyway joop!
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joris
Moderator
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 20:58
Reply
I deleted this comment....
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de stilte
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:02
Reply
I just noticed it............I was looking once, and looking at hte pictures of Kiebres, looked the second time and the comment was gone.
Even there are many members on woophy I don't think this kind of comments fits on this site.
If you allow this were do you draw the line ????.....DOn't allow it so you don't have to draw a line.
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:03
Reply
Thank you very much Joris!... I really thank you!
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Bogers
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:03
Reply
Did you ask Kiebres first what he/she ment with this comment and why he/she made it?
We can better teach people why racism is the poison of this world than ban people from this various Woophy. Racism can overcome to all of us, also to our Spanisch Kiebres.
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:10
Reply
Thanks bogers,
I did'nt ask because if you understand spanish the sense of the comment is completely clear... Maybe I could do it but I was too angry... I will consider your advice...
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:22
Reply
... moreover I didn't want to give my e-mail adress to this member...
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pansa
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 21:51 - Edited by: pansa
Reply
First of all I like the picture very much. It has dignity and from a photographic point of view it has good compo and a good topic. The use of B&W is also quite good.
Nevertheless I agree with Joop that (within certain limits) Woophy should be open to different opinions. Needless to say that I completely disagree with the comment of KIebress "as quoted". I couldn't check it because it is no longer in the comment list of the photo.
Frankly speaking, I have a bit of a problem with the censure of the Woophy staff. The mission of Woophy is to show the world, so why the "happy family" approach by erasing every deviation from the happy family thought?
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 22:12
Reply
Thanks Pansa,
For me this is not censure, as you said, but it's just a question of respect... this is just my opinion, of course...
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Geoffrey McElwaine
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 23:23 - Edited by: Geoffrey McElwaine
Reply
Ruden. Wow, you've raised a thorny issue here - but one which needs to be brought into the open, and honestly discussed. The key issue, in this sad case, seems, to me, to involve a consideration as to whether everyone has the right to say whatever they feel like, irrespective of the pain and hurt this will cause others. In this, I feel that Joop and pansa's argument is valid as far as it goes, but IMO it does not go far enough. To operate in a civilised manner, all societies ( including Woophy ) need to have generally accepted rules of what constitutes its members' good behaviour. This should certainly encompass the fundamental right of everyone ( no matter how different [ in lifestyle, religious oibservance, colour or ethnicity ] to the majority within that society ) to be treated with equal respect. This basic right, to be treated with humanity and dignity, surely must over-ride the normal, but less significant, right of free speech.
For this reason, I side with Ruden and Joris.
Regards
Geoff.
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joopvandijk
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 23:23
Reply
Ruden I know how you feel, and you're very right.
But the nasty side of freedom is that people can say what they like.
Drawing the line, what joris did is OK but very difficult.
The good thing of such a bad comment is showing up now.
We, the Woophy fans can show up en speak out that we hate things like this on this website.
We want a world wihout racism, and that is the message we can send to the world
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 07 23:41
Reply
Thank you Geoff, I really appreciate all your comments! You're an example for this community in this sense: always sincere and respectfull!
Thanks again Joop, I agree somehow with you now but, talking about freedom, there is a proverb (I don't know if it's international) that says more or less "your freedom finishes where others freedom begin" (please forgive my poor english)... and I think we can apply this idea in this subject.
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sercas72
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 07 01:05 - Edited by: sercas72
Reply
Hello Ruben before that at all congratulations for your photographies.
In this case I agree with joopvandijk, I believe that the freedom of expression takes his weak points like the insult in these cases.
I believe that this type of commentaries say to us the moral quality of certain persons.
It is a shame to see an image like that of a young person, maybe with problems or physical impediments that prohibit him to take a normal life.
But in some cases many healthy persons and without desire of working they see in this type of activities an easier solution to live, maybe for that this member insult to this person, since to be sincere in many zones of the world see exactly this way to this type of persons, I would not be call it a racism but if it is a social exclusion.
Do not take personal this commentary, only a person without education can insult this way other one, and does not look at the depth of the social problem that you show us with your image.
Best regards Sergio.
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Zazi
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 07 04:13
Reply
There is so much to absorb from so many of the members that have taken time to give their input, also so many different angles, thoughts, and perspectives.
Hmm, first of all, I like the photo, and how Ruden turned a simple photo of a person (that could be a college student) sitting on a sidewalk, into a major issue that has to do with race, and homeless people.
Just because of the title that Ruden gave to this photo ...Suddenly critics choose a view, and run with that to create an "issue".
Why don't you stop trying to create an "issue", (when this photo, is just a lovely young lady sitting on the sidewalk, viewing something of interest,) Or posing for the the photographer. How about if you get off your "High Horses", and seriously LOOK at the photo?
Look at her clothing, her hair style, and attitude. Is she really homeless? Is race actually an issue in the photo? Or were you all just a bit too eager to create a mountain out af just an interesting photo?
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Zazi
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 07 04:31
Reply
OH! And by the way, why the heck would you create a new forum, that is meticulously feeding into a comment that you might be annoyed about?
Why not just ignore?
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Corneel Timmermans
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 07 11:24
Reply
I think a remark to Joris and question to remove the comment would be enough, if Joris get's about more remarks about this person. There can be only 2 actions; 1 warning, 2nd ban.
plain and simple.
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sercas72
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 07 11:48 - Edited by: sercas72
Reply
Hello zazi.
Your point of view is very interesting but I do not agree with you.
We have created a topic of something that is very evident if you LOOK the photo, and you see a person who wants money in the street for that has been insulted, something with what I am in disagreement.
How we will be able to know that this person asks for money????
First that at all the person this sitting on an improvised protection, maybe she passes long hours in this place.
Do you see that is not sitting in a better place like the wall staggered that this more above??? she is sitting on the ground, this is to give a sense of inferiority to the persons who go on to her side.
If your you observe the left arm one takes glass of plastic - emptiness this is deduced by his inclination-, that it she uses to deposit the money.
She doesnt look very happy, because she doesnt enjoy what does, or interprets a role to obtain more money.
But also she can be a university student resting that has finished drinking a coca cola.
Everything depends on the reality that you want to see, it is the nice of the photography when you invent your own proper history of an image.
But I say everything previous with all respect, towards the person of the photo.
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