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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 16:52
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Thank you all! Your ideas are really helpful. I'll try to consider all them and to post a new "decalogue" this afternoon or evening taking them into account.
Meanwhile all contributions are, of course, wellcome.
See you later!
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 18:31 - Edited by: Ruden Fretsbo
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Ok. I made the new "decalogue". Feel free to suggest changes in every point. And if your english level is better than mine (surely it is) feel free also to write a better explanation and post it 
You will find in italics the main changes:
1. Create a list with all members interested in taking part of the workgroup. This list will be open all the time (to get in and to get out).
2. Each member of the workgroup agrees in being a critic for other members (not necessarily all them) and being criticized by the rest of members (not necessarily all them).
3. The idea is to make a critic of a whole work from a photographer and not only of a picture. It’s aviced to browse to the whole collection of the photographer under critics (but it’s not obligatory, specially considering that there are some very large portafolios).
4. Nevertheless, a sample around 20 pictures selected by the photographer will be posted in the appropriate forum thread in order to highlight which pictures the photographer considers as the best examples of his/her photographic work. The critics will take specially these pictures into account, but all the collection can be browsed and used for the critic’s work.
5. All opinions must be accepted by all members, like it or not. The only limits for the critics is to be sincere, to be polite and to be constructive. This is supposed to be a workshop to learn... if you want flattery just have a look at the normal comments in your pictures.
6. All aspects of photography would be under critics: quality, quantity, originality, subject, composition, light, colour, white balance, edition, etc... But this doesn't mean that you must criticize all these things. Concerning the critics, you will find a very good summary in Miguel's blog here: "Elements of Analysis".
7. This workgroup doesn't intend to be an "exclusive club for experienced photographers". All members are wellcome, with all photographic levels... (If you don't know about white balance, depth of field, ISO, etc... just tell us "I like your collection or I don't like it at all and try to explain why with your own words...)
8. The strategy "you scratch my back and I scratch yours" is not accepted in such a workgroup... Let's be serious...
Now some ideas about the way to carry this out:
1st. Join the group in this forum topic.
2nd. Post a forum topic with the title: "CRITICS WORKSHOP: Member’s nickname gallery". In this topic you will cut and paste these rules and those written above and post around 20 pictures selected from your own collection. It would be nice also if you could write few words about your photographic work: what are you interested in, what do you want to transmit with your pictures, for how long you are a photographer... and whatever you think it’s important to consider for a critic.
3rd. Every member decides when he/she will post his/her own topic. Just take into account not to collapse the forum by posting all them at the same time. Three or four topics at the same time should be the maximum. If four topics are already active just wait that the dicussion in one of them is finished or that the topic is closed by the owner. Then you are wellcome to post yours.
Just one more thing about Zeeg’s proposal : To create a selection for critics in a blog seems good, associated with a thread in a new chapter to be created in the "Woophy's Photography Workshop" section like "Submit your gallery to critics" or something---- I think it’s a good idea but it depends on woophy staff. Maybe Joris has something to say about it. We’ll see.
I'm waiting again for your imput!
Ruden
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geert geenen
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 19:01
Reply
okay, Ruden, i will join the group.
question: that means i have to post a forum-topic named 'CRITICS WORKSHOP: geert geenen's gallery'?
and: it will take some time to make a selection (i'm one of those with a huge gallery).
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RiSi
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 19:25 - Edited by: RiSi
Reply
i think it would best if we opened just one thread and posted all our links there. the comments will be posted in the blogs anyway so there is pretty much next to no chance to fill the thread with unneccesary comments anyway. else, the forum will be flooded with countless threads with just one or two entries. now *that* would be messy.
ps. count me in.
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 20:19
Reply
@geert: Yes, this is the idea, but I would say that we could wait still few days to see how many people is joining and if there are other interesting ideas to add... Remember also that the idea is not to have more than four forum topics concerning this workshop at the same time.
@Risi: I think your idea about using blogs is good, but as Jan Hemels wrote, the forum reaches more members attention. I think that if other members see in the forum what's going on they can also join it or at least read the critics and also learn something about the discussion. I think that if we really respect the rule of not opening more than three or four topics concerning critics at the same time the forum should'nt be flooded by this... Anyway, your idea is very interesting and I'm still open to it... I'd like to read other opinions about preferences on forum or blogs..
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TBM
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 20:27
Reply
I'm ready!
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geert geenen
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 20:38
Reply
@Ruden: four forum-topics at the same time? does that mean when a fifth is posted, the first one is getting closed?
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Abílio Silveira
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 20:50
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Me and my obsessions... When you write on point number 7. This workgroup doesn't PRETEND to be, you mean 7. This workgroup doesn't INTEND to be
Pretend means speak and act so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact it is not
In Portuguese we also have the same problem with the verb pretender 
Count me in when I reach twenty pictures!
And give me some time to think on some improvements to your idea.
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zerega
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 21:04
Reply
Forum is better, because you can post the photos large. Surprisingly few people usually open those large versions to have a look (and comment and rate), so this is the chance to get people to really have a close look.
Good idea to have a main critics workshop forum post where there are
- the rules plus
- a short thread-editing-101 to help the member for his individual thread plus
- a link to this thread here, which you are currently reading, to post questions.
- each follwing comment consists of a member's name who just opened up his thread, a few thumbnails as a sneak peek and the link to this just-opened individual critique thread.
Keep the main thread closed for most of the time, so that a/the moderator(s) can build up a nice and easy-to-navigate collection. As soon as forum threads get cluttered with an ecclectic mix of small, medium, large photos, questions, rants, greetings and off-topic things, people tend to ignore those threads, especially earlier pages. You can see this in the topic threads, those where people dump photos that may have to do something with this topic. If a member posts a comment with some new photos, the thread receives only between 1 and 9 views that day mostly, before the thread slips off page one again.
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Ruden Fretsbo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 21:51
Reply
@Abílio: Thank you, I fixed it! I'm waiting for your ideas.
@Zerega: Than you also for your interest. Nevertheless I'm afraid I did'nt understand all you wrote... (not because of you but because of my poor english level)
@Geert: I realize that maybe I didn't explain it very well... it's difficult for me in english...
I'll try to explain it again:
Once we decide which members will take part in the workshop we will decide the starting date. Then, for example I'll be opening a new thread called "CRITICS WORKSHOP: Ruden's Gallery" and in this topic I'll be posting, first of all, the rules of the workshop, and after this 20 selected pictures from my gallery. The rest of members will have a look at this pictures (and if they want also to the rest of my portafolio) and later post their critics in that thread.
Let's say, for example, that Geert Geenen, RiSi, and TBM (it's just an example) decide also to open their own threads. Ok, this means that we have four threads concerning the workshop opened... This means that the rest of members of the workshop must wait a little until the discussions of, at least, one of the open threads is already old or the owner of the thread decides to close it.
Maybe it's too messy? I really don't think it's a difficult organization, it should be easy like this, but maybe I have some problems explaining it... ... Somebody SAVE ME??? ABIIIIIÍLIOOOOO HELP! (maybe Abílio will understand better my english?)
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kit-tay
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 22:02
Reply
Ruden, your English is just fine It's perfectly understandable!
Just one question: what is "old" for a conversation? Maybe it would be wise to set a certain period of time for one thread to be open?
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geert geenen
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 09 22:05
Reply
@Ruden: i suppose with 'thread' you mean the same as 'forum topic'; if that's the case, i now inderstand what you mean.
and yes, there is a language problem. english is my first language neither. that makes it sometimes hard to explain what i mean or, for myself, to understand what others want to say. i think it's an underestimated problem on woophy that is partly declaring why many comments don't go much further than beautiful, good pov and other commonplaces. so. i'm curious how this will work out in the critics workshop. (and yes, i have a dictionary that helps me a lot.)
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Lali
Moderator
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 01:24
Reply
Count me in too
p.s. Please do not stuck betwen to many rules and endless ideas, just do it and the time will show us the best way....
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josecps
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 01:54
Reply
I want it, I've no ideas of rules unless frontality! Let us wait and see!
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Jan Hemels
Moderator
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 09:25
Reply
I join the party, well documented positive critic is always better than anonymous voting!
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la rafale
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 09:57
Reply
i will be the first "non photographer" to engage
but i'll only explain what i feel on your pics (technics knowledge isn't my part !) and can only do my best (maybe not succeed) to follow tour advices on mine
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PBX
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 11:00
Reply
I'll be in, to learn from more experienced.
I am "old", but new to photography...
The teachers give me permission?
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tiswas
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 11:16 - Edited by: tiswas
Reply
I will go with the flow ..I will be in because comments positive or negative will help maintain, improve relationships between members and like Jan says its got to be better than anonymous voting without comment ...good positive reactions, gents and ladies alike....and Ruden, I would like to say a good initiative and your English is OK even I don't understand it sometimes ...and I speak it
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Zeeg
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 11:24
Reply
Of course I will participate
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bruha2
Member
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# Posted: 16 Sep 09 11:44
Reply
Count me in but I'm with Lali. "Just do it"
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