| Author |
Message |
Ruden Fretsbo
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 21:33
Reply
Hi all!
For a long time I was thinking about a new proposal for the woophy forum, and today, after seeing the topic "Crossfire", by TBM, that you can find here, I realized that it was time to share it with all you.
My proposal is to create a critics workgroup with the aim of learn from each other about photography. I thought that we could do it like this:
1. Create a list with all members interested in taking part of the workgroup. This list would be open all the time (to get in and to get out).
2. Each member of the workgroup would commit to criticize the rest of members collections.
3. The idea is to make a critic of a whole collection and not only of a picture or a couple of pictures. (I believe this is the best way to really learn from others...)
4. In order to achieve this, each member would commit to have a good overview in the collection that is criticising. This doesn't mean that you have to see each and every picture (specially considering that there are very large collections) but you must spend some time in every collection under critics... (btw: a critic could be also that a collection is too large... 
5. All opinions must be accepted by all members, like it or not. The only limits for the critics is to be sincere, to be polite and to be constructive. This is supposed to be a workshop to learn... if you want flattery just have a look at the normal comments in your pictures.
6. All aspects of photography would be under critics: quality, quantity, originality, subject, composition, light, colour, white balance, edition, etc... etc... etc... (This doesn't mean that you must criticize all these things... just choose)
7. This workgroup doesn't pretend to be an "exclusive club for good photographers". All members are wellcome, with all photographic levels... (If you don't know about white balance, depth of field, ISO, etc... just tell us "I like your collection or I don't like it at all and try to explain why with your own words...)
8. The strategy "you scratch my back and I scratch yours" is not accepted in such a workgroup... Let's be serious...
9. No 9th. point by now
10. Neither 10th...
And now I'd like to now your opinions, also if you would be interested in taking part of the group, and help me find out the way to carry it out.
Hugs!
Ruden Fretsbo
|
joopvandijk
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 21:53
Reply
The idea looks good. I'm anxious if it will work the way you suggested, give it a try.
|
TBM
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 22:01
Reply
Well done, Ruden! I like above all the idea of criticising (not a sigle picture, but) the member's collection as a whole. Unfortunately, I cannot assure you that I will be able to spend much time on this project, but I would be glad to try.
|
RiSi
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 22:29
Reply
good idea, ruden. however, i see a tiny problem for those who will go through the galleries. some of them contain more than 1000 images. you already said that we should spend a bit of time with the galleries before writing down commentary. but it is quite different to judge 1000 pictures or 100. my suggestion therefore would be, to look at ten images that were chosen by the owner based on their own judgement. five 'good' ones and five 'bad' ones.
|
geert geenen
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 22:56
Reply
hello Ruden!
my first thought: a good, constructive and sympathic idea. i will comment later more detailed on your points.
and, as Risi, i foresee some time-problems. Risi writes:
my suggestion therefore would be, to look at ten images that were chosen by the owner based on their own judgement. five 'good' ones and five 'bad' ones.
yes, maybe something like that. or maybe not.
to be continued...
|
ortho158
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 23:13
Reply
It's a good idea, but I don't think (like Risi and Geert) that it should encompass the full portfolio of a member. In my own case: I have around 800 pics, covering a period of more than 40 years, and with a mix of travel pics and more "artistic" ones. I think it's very difficult to give a global evaluation in cases like this.
|
Nivad
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 23:29 - Edited by: Nivad
Reply
Good idea Ruden, but as said before there might be a problem with evaluating the larger collections...
So if you want to work out this idea I would propose that workgroup members create a portfolio (of maximum X pictures) on which they want to be evaluated. But unfortunately there is no smart way how to present such a portfolio on woophy.
Still I like the idea and I hope once you get it initiated it will work.
Grtz
|
|
RiSi
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 23:41
Reply
how about assembling these pictures in a blog entry and then link to each blog from the appropriate forum thread. that way it won't get too messy and the comments on each blog won't interfere with other contributers' entries.
|
|
Nivad
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 09 23:44
Reply
Now that is what I call trouble solving thinking, good shot RiSi 
|
|
Ruden Fretsbo
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 08:40
Reply
Thank you guys for your inputs!
As I wrote before, the idea was: This doesn't mean that you have to see each and every picture (specially considering that there are very large collections) but you must spend some time in every collection under critics... (btw: a critic could be also that a collection is too large...
but I agree that even like this it could be too difficult, as many members (me included) don't have so much time to spend in woophy...
So, Risi's idea seems to me really excelent (Thanks Risi!) We could use blogs to have some order. On the other hand, I would suggest more than 10 images from every portafolio, maybe 20 or 30... ?
Let's see what the rest of members think about this... I'm afraid that by now my idea wasn't too stimulating for the community Let's see...
|
Cloudbuster
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 09:12
Reply
I'm in!
|
Jan Hemels
Moderator
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 09:23
Reply
I would prefer the blog idea, f.i. 10 pictures in one blog for every participant. If many members join in it would still be an enormous task.
Maybe we could go for it in a sequence, with the preceding member nominating the next one???
|
|
Nivad
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 11:23
Reply
This seems to be getting somewhere...
But how do you see this practically Ruden?
Are we discussing each workgroupmember's portfolio on a turn based system? Like Jan proposed? Sounds good but the disadvantage of a turn sequence based on nominations is that it isn't objective. It will probably create some "back scratching" again... so I wonder if there isn't a fairer way of determining turns order, like the moment one applied for entering the workgroup.
Another question in this case is how long does it take before a turn expires? After a fixed period of timed like one week or after the one who's turn it is feels the debate has ended and calls for the next turn?
And were do we discuss each others portfolio? Through the comment box of the concerning blog or do we open a new forum thread for each member? Using the forum benefits the interaction, but through the blog comment box is good for the member to easily check given comments.
Grtz
|
tiswas
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 12:07
Reply
I like the idea in principal and I feel Ortho's point of someone who has a large portfolio may cause a problem ...then who would decide say the 10 shots to critique on? Or am I missing something here?
Billyboy
|
|
Nivad
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 12:11
Reply
@tiswas
Everybody could present it's own portfolio of a limitednumber of pictures in a new blog entry.
So everybody decides for themselves which shots are going to be judged more thoroughly.
Grtz
|
|
Jan Hemels
Moderator
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 12:17
Reply
Bill: the idea would be that some one posts 10 pics he likes to be judged and commented on a forum topic dedicated to this purpose. This has the advantage you can use old pics from your portfolio. In fact TBM has already started such a game but it would be better I think to organize it in a fixed structure.
Nivad: I agree that any sequence can do the trick! When I wrote blog I meant forum thread, sorry. I guess a new forum thread is to be preferred because of the number of pages involved and because the forum reaches more members attention
|
|
tiswas
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 12:28
Reply
Yes I get the picture so to speak .....this could work very well I certainly feel it would be advantageous for people to learn ...I would be interested in this idea
|
Zeeg
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 13:13 - Edited by: Zeeg
Reply
First, thanks Ruden for your proposal, I think it's a very good initiative to get real and constructive critics and to create discussions between people who are really interested on photography and the improvement of their knowledge and experience (and not by this fruitless and boring flattery which invades and pollutes Woophy now).
Concerning the way to implement the system, I agree with the general rules you proposed(maybe to be completed after some experience).
- Criticizing not a single pic but a "bunch" is a good way to have an overview of the work, and give a more complete and relevant opinion.
- As pointed before, a selection of pictures is necessary given the great number of pics in many portfolios. So the limit could be around 20 to 30 pics.
- To create a selection for critics in a blog seems good, associated with a thread in a new chapter to be created in the "Woophy's Photography Workshop" section like "Submit your gallery to critics" or something.
- I think that creating rounds (for example a member/candidate each week) has some weak points:
Hard to manage (a waiting list or so ?) and overall it's again a kind of "promotion" which could encourage back scratching, like "this is Calo Paulafate's week, let's go and put good critics to receive in return good comments…"
So maybe better to let things happen at their own pace, and people open their gallery as they like.
- Concerning the critics, it could be useful to have a kind of "Critic's guide". Some points are already suggested by Ruden, and there is a very good summary in the Miguel's blog here "Elements of Analysis" : URL
|
kit-tay
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 13:19
Reply
Hello,
I think this is a great idea and I would love to join.
I fully agree with what Zeeg has said -- idea-wise. Technically, it is certainly up to more experienced Woophians than me to judge
Regards
|
TGB
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 09 13:29
Reply
How about working in pairs. One person selects the Photographer and the pictures and their partner does the critique...
|
Online now: Guests - 2 Members - 2